Its Time to Tank

[Handlogten's Heros]

I know the Bulls and Lakers don’t does that mean they aren’t *** still?

Bulls are fine… Lakers may not be able to help themselves.

Critical stretch for LA here… they have SA 3 times in like the next week or two… may help push one of them to hope or to throw in the towel.

 

[Eddie Zero]

And Milwaukee never would.

for once we agree

 

[Eddie Zero]

My favorite Clarkson trade hypothetical if we did move him is to Milwaukee for Grayson Allen and MarJon Beauchamp. I mentioned this one in the off-season and still would do it.

I cannot see them giving up Marjon he is already in their rotation as a rook. Pretty much was slept on by everyone in the lottery imo

 

[fishonjazz]

Nah man... its literally impossible for that many teams to tank.

Kings are off to a good start and DESPERATELY want to make the play in... they won't tank.
Bulls don't own their own pick unless it falls top 4... they won't be bad enough to make that make sense.
Blazers are too good even without Dame. Off to a great start and he's missed games already.
Wiz are too good to tank... had a golden opportunity last year and were like...nah.
Knicks are too good to tank - Randle and Brunson are absolute floor raisers and they have depth. Rose is fighting for his job... so is Thibs.

Rockets are ***
Magic have some good players but are ***
Pistons... same as Magic.

The maybe teams
-Hornets might be *** on accident. Ball and Hayward have missed a lot.
- OKC is too good with SGA. He is in All-NBA territory and if they shut him down for some BS it will piss him off and attract league attention. They are a 35ish win team.
- SA may shut it down and move Poeltl... but Johnson/Vassell/Jones/Poeltl/Sochan/Richardson/McDermott... is a solid NBA squad. The will win around 35 games.
- Indiana is solid with Turner... if they move Turner or he gets hurt they will tank.
- Lakers might be *** on accident and give the pick to the Pelicans which is just wild.

We can get to 6-8 range... even if one surprise team joins the tank. Still decent odds in that range.

Funny thing is that the fans of other teams having these same discussions say the same thing about the jazz as what you are saying about the kings, blazers, wiz, knicks, and the maybe teams lol.

Its a long season and crazy stuff happens. Throw in the fact that VW seems to be an extra enticing and extra special player and this draft is supposed to be one of the better ones and I can see each and every one of those teams tanking depending on different circumstances.

 

[fishonjazz]

I know the Bulls and Lakers don’t does that mean they aren’t *** still?

Actually HH said the bulls do get their pick if its top 4 I believe. Right now they aren't even in the play in (6-9 and 11th in the east). They might have more incentive to tank than anyone being that they lose their pick if they are not bad enough. They would look pretty good next season with a top 4 pick added to that roster imo.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Actually HH said the bulls do get their pick if its top 4 I believe. Right now they aren't even in the play in (6-9 and 11th in the east). They might have more incentive to tank than anyone being that they lose their pick if they are not bad enough. They would look pretty good next season with a top 4 pick added to that roster imo.

I could see it.

 

[fishonjazz]

I could see it.

Ya i mean its unlikely because they have derozan, and lavine, and vucevic but maybe lavine gets hurts, they lose some close tough games and their record gets even worse and they fall a couple more spots in the standings. Then derozan starts bitching cause he wants to win and is 33 years old and knows time is running out for him so he demands a trade. Then they would definitely want to hold onto that draft pick.
I highly doubt that they will be part of the tank race but if they dont start winning more than they are losing and soon then things could change. Its a long season.

FWIW they have lost 3 in a row and 7 of their last 10. And they have played more home games than road games.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Actually HH said the bulls do get their pick if its top 4 I believe. Right now they aren't even in the play in (6-9 and 11th in the east). They might have more incentive to tank than anyone being that they lose their pick if they are not bad enough. They would look pretty good next season with a top 4 pick added to that roster imo.

I could see it.

Nah… only if both Lavine and Derozan are out for the year. They won’t be able to out tank the bottom 3-4 teams… flipping the switch late would get them a 10-20% chance at keeping it and a 80-90% chance at giving Orlando a very nice pick… in a year they are supposed to be a playoff team and have spent accordingly.

Only 10 teams miss the playoffs/play in… 11 or 12 will be in range until like final 10 games and most of those teams GMs will have major egg on their face if they are bottom 5 in the conference.

 

[fishonjazz]

Nah… only if both Lavine and Derozan are out for the year. They won’t be able to out tank the bottom 3-4 teams… flipping the switch late would get them a 10-20% chance at keeping it and a 80-90% chance at giving Orlando a very nice pick… in a year they are supposed to be a playoff team and have spent accordingly.

Only 10 teams miss the playoffs/play in… 11 or 12 will be in range until like final 10 games and most of those teams GMs will have major egg on their face if they are bottom 5 in the conference.

Flipping the switch late? They currently suck bad enough to not make the play in tourney in the east and have lost 3 in a row and 7 of 10 with a favorable schedule. Vuc and lavine have never been big time winners on playoff teams iirc.
Seems like the switch was flipped early.
The jazz would be the team who would be flipping the switch late out of the two teams imo.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Funny thing is that the fans of other teams having these same discussions say the same thing about the jazz as what you are saying about the kings, blazers, wiz, knicks, and the maybe teams lol.

Its a long season and crazy stuff happens. Throw in the fact that VW seems to be an extra enticing and extra special player and this draft is supposed to be one of the better ones and I can see each and every one of those teams tanking depending on different circumstances.

I live in Kings country… no one wants to tank… Vivek already showed his hand last year… he really wants to get to the play in… GM is gone if he doesn’t. Do not underestimate the power of self preservation.

There will be competition but as it stands the tank race is surprisingly tame. Getting to 6-8 range is very possible and yes there will be a few teams going for it… that’s no reason to not try if the cost is trading a couple 30 year old players who won’t be around in 2 years. Landing top 2 completely changes the trajectory of the franchise and makes everything you do so much easier. If not 6-8 gives you a much better chance to control your destiny and get a difference maker. I bet you could even move that pick straight up for a borderline all star on draft night. That pick is the best chance we have at pairing Lauri with another all star one way or another.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Bulls would be a better team if Vucevic got hurt. He holds them back. Drummond might be better.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Flipping the switch late? They currently suck bad enough to not make the play in tourney in the east and have lost 3 in a row and 7 of 10 with a favorable schedule. Vuc and lavine have never been big time winners on playoff teams iirc.
Seems like the switch was flipped early.
The jazz would be the team who would be flipping the switch late out of the two teams imo.

Flipping the switch means selling off win now pieces… they haven’t flipped the switch they just haven’t had good health yet. Maybe they never do… that’s not flipping the switch though… that’s just sucking. Just because they lost to NO twice and Denver doesn’t mean they suck and their GM would stake his job for a 20% chance to keep their draft pick. They won’t try to lose unless Derozan goes out for the year and Zach can’t get consistently healthy.

If they did… then that pushes one team up a bit more… I’m not saying we have to be the worst in the league… I’m saying we have to be worse than a few mid teams… that can absolutely be done.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think we are seeing pretty amazing parity across the league… I don’t think we will have a team with 60 wins and there will just be more wins spread throughout the league and less separation between teams… will allow for some shenanigans for those that have motivation.

 

[fishonjazz]

I live in Kings country… no one wants to tank… Vivek already showed his hand last year… he really wants to get to the play in… GM is gone if he doesn’t. Do not underestimate the power of self preservation.

There will be competition but as it stands the tank race is surprisingly tame. Getting to 6-8 range is very possible and yes there will be a few teams going for it… that’s no reason to not try if the cost is trading a couple 30 year old players who won’t be around in 2 years. Landing top 2 completely changes the trajectory of the franchise and makes everything you do so much easier. If not 6-8 gives you a much better chance to control your destiny and get a difference maker. I bet you could even move that pick straight up for a borderline all star on draft night. That pick is the best chance we have at pairing Lauri with another all star one way or another.

Agreed.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I think there are a lot of teams that wouldn't mind it if they ended up in the 1 to 5 pick range in this draft, but as far as fanatical, sell-the-farm tanking to get Victor... I don't see it, and I don't think it'll happen all season.

The hype has died down a bit, as it should. Teams are seeing a 7'4'' dude who's taking silly one-legged 3pt shots against subpar competition and thinking, "This is a guy we're gonna turn our team over to?" Of course, if you do get the #1 pick, you're still taking him, because you're getting fired as a GM if you don't. That's how the NBA works. It's a business, and Vic will sell a lot of season tickets before he goes down with a rare foot fracture (out for two seasons).

As I've said before, the real winners of this draft will probably be picking in the 5 to 15 range.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Markannen is 25 bruh. His prime is still a couple years out.

Yes, but he's gonna be negotiating his extension pretty soon. If all he sees on the horizon is losing and playing 3th fiddle to shot-happy guys like Sexton and a bunch of rookies, there's no way he's gonna be staying, which means the Jazz will end up having to trade him before he bolts and getting less value back.

To sum up - if you're setting up to be losing for 3-4 years, Lauri isn't an ideal piece to have on the roster. Maybe if he was 3 years younger, sure, but he's gonna be 26 in May.

 

[HermanG]

Yes, but he's gonna be negotiating his extension pretty soon. If all he sees on the horizon is losing and playing 3th fiddle to shot-happy guys like Sexton and a bunch of rookies, there's no way he's gonna be staying, which means the Jazz will end up having to trade him before he bolts and getting less value back.

To sum up - if you're setting up to be losing for 3-4 years, Lauri isn't an ideal piece to have on the roster. Maybe if he was 3 years younger, sure, but he's gonna be 26 in May.

You need a balance of vets and rooks. Even if our next championship window was open 4 years from now, how is Lauri too old then?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think there are a lot of teams that wouldn't mind it if they ended up in the 1 to 5 pick range in this draft, but as far as fanatical, sell-the-farm tanking to get Victor... I don't see it, and I don't think it'll happen all season.

The hype has died down a bit, as it should. Teams are seeing a 7'4'' dude who's taking silly one-legged 3pt shots against subpar competition and thinking, "This is a guy we're gonna turn our team over to?" Of course, if you do get the #1 pick, you're still taking him, because you're getting fired as a GM if you don't. That's how the NBA works. It's a business, and Vic will sell a lot of season tickets before he goes down with a rare foot fracture (out for two seasons).

As I've said before, the real winners of this draft will probably be picking in the 5 to 15 range.

Vic hype hasn’t died down at all… Scoot is also tearing **** up… I agree a **** ton of teams aren’t going to go to extreme measures to tank. There will be winners in the 5-15 range sure… but top 4 are going to likely be awesome.

 

[silesian]

A tank doesn't stop on a dime. No matter who you draft, the losing will most likely continue for years. Look at Orlando.

Orlando: how not to tank

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Orlando: how not to tank

The Dipo, Vuc, Gordon, Fournier group that they held out hope for was rough... they had some bad luck but also took shortcuts that hurt. Now that they did a serious sell off and tank they have Wagner, Carter Jr., Paolo.... will have their own high pick this year and the bulls pick too. If Suggs, Isaac, Fultz become anything its a bonus. Not all tank jobs work... good strategies are still susceptible to bad luck.