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Its Time to Tank

Elizah Huge said:
I still think the Clippers are a potential suitor. I think the Mavericks could be interested. Another interesting team could be the Bucks. Might be a little far-fetched but you never know.
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I don't think you are wrong... but go to the trade machine and its hard to make it work... that's all.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Lots of assumptions that I don't agree with. Lauri might be a solid number two... but to be a contender many teams have multi all-nba talents. That is the hardest thing to find... that is something we will only get in the draft. Rebuilding teams don't sell off All-NBA talents in their 20s all that often. You might hit on a lot of the other moves you make but not getting that superstar will have you wandering in the NBA middle between the play in and first round exits. Can you get them in the teens in the draft? Sure.

Having a high pick is no guarantee at getting a star... there are zero guarantees... I get that. This draft has at least two tremendous prospects that are about as close to guarantees as you can get. There are many more guys in the college ranks that are tremendous prospects. I will take my chances getting one of those guys and getting the other stuff right.... while abandoning a few guys in their 30s that are solid NBA starters/rotation players... I can get those guys later with the excess picks I have.

I just don't see Lauri as good enough to hit the accelerator and build around. Is he a top 40 nba player? top 30? You still need a top 10 guy to have sustained success next to Lauri. I just see the other parts as things we can replace... most of them are holdovers we couldn't trade for something good or leftovers from the superstar trade we made.
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We just see things differently and thats fine. I think we are much closer to win now than full rebuild, and you think we need pieces we cannot buy.
 
HermanG said:
We just see things differently and thats fine. I think we are much closer to win now than full rebuild, and you think we need pieces we cannot buy.
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And I am fine with that. It depends on your definition of win now though. If we wanted to win on this level you could keep Donovan with the haul you got for Rudy and give it a whirl. My understanding is Ainge isn't all that excited about a first round exit team. That's where I see this route headed... its like the Derozan era Spurs imo.

Without the star I just think this goes nowhere. Just think the best chance to land that star is in this draft... I think it becomes easy to trade for everything else you need with the picks... which is why I think we have a huge opportunity to nail the rebuild but it requires luck... that luck gets much more likely if we have better lotto odds/picks.

The trade premium to get stars or get into the top 4 of the draft is just so high. Hell... even if we landed 7/8 and weren't sold on the guys in that range I think the premium you could extract to move to 14/15 could be huge.
 
Eddie Zero said:
About all I can see right now with just JC outgoing is eating a bad contract like DRob from the Heat in a straight swap for JC with the Heat sending back their 23 unprotected
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No Bucks, Raps, Hornets, Bulls, hell maybe the Spurs decide to be buyers and trade for him. I think there are a handful of teams would have interest and could offer a first and/or shorter matching money. His contract is so much easier to match and he has shown to be effective as a bench player or a starter..
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
No Bucks, Raps, Hornets, Bulls, hell maybe the Spurs decide to be buyers and trade for him. I think there are a handful of teams would have interest and could offer a first and/or shorter matching money. His contract is so much easier to match and he has shown to be effective as a bench player or a starter..
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hope so, and especially if they are banking on getting the version of player he has been this season, showing playmaking team ball skill.Well until recently.
But I expect most orgs still see him as a microwave and someone always prone to going into the tunnel mode even the chucker mode, which is not as attractive at all.
Bucks health could spark some interest I guess but no real picks to offer. Hornets are not moving draft assets imo, Bulls have guard depth already,Spurs drafted a ton of high upside guards and are tanking i don't care if it is the Spurs they are tanking.
 
My favorite Clarkson trade hypothetical if we did move him is to Milwaukee for Grayson Allen and MarJon Beauchamp. I mentioned this one in the off-season and still would do it.
 
I also wonder if Milwaukee would do a Conley for Serge Ibaka and Grayson Allen trade.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Detroit, Houston, Orlando are currently the only obvious tankers. Charlotte may join them if Ball keeps getting hurt. Pacers are above .500 and their winning is being driven by guys in their 20s… SA is close to .500 and has the same type of thing going… same with OKC and they now will have a hard time shutting down SGA (he’s now good enough they need to worry much more about keeping him happy than getting more high picks). Kings desperately want to make the playoffs. Lakers, Clips, Nets, T wolves have no motivation to tank. We can get to the 6-8 range by simply moving at least one vet and replacing one vet on the rotation imo. Lauri has struggled to play all 82 in the past… he misses 10-20 games and you are right there imo.
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Ya there will be many more tanking teams later in the season. Once teams realize they will struggle to get into the playoffs and a few injuries hit then many more teams will join the tank rank. Especially with Victor as the main prize.
 
sip said:
We have definitely had a lot of breaks go our way. We are a few breaks away from being 6-10 rather than 10-6.
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And could even say that the games we lost, we were right there at the end and we could be 13-3. Joel embiid doesn't score 60 points every night for example.
 
fishonjazz said:
Ya there will be many more tanking teams later in the season. Once teams realize they will struggle to get into the playoffs and a few injuries hit then many more teams will join the tank rank. Especially with Victor as the main prize.
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Name em… there really isn’t this shadow group of tankers that will emerge. With the play in most team are in playoff contention until really late I’m the season.

We basically have to out tank SA, OKC, Indiana to get to 6-7.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Name em… there really isn’t this shadow group of tankers that will emerge. With the play in most team are in playoff contention until really late I’m the season.

We basically have to out tank SA, OKC, Indiana to get to 6-7.
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I believe the kings and hornets would join the race if they think they miss the playoffs or injuries occur to name a couple. If the blazers drop off (dame gets hurts) boom they are in the race.
I could see knicks, wizards, pacers, bulls, magic, hornets, pistons, kings, thunder, spurs and rockets all tanking. And blazers if things crumble or dame gets hurt. Maybe luka blows out a knee and then they would suck and maybe pack it in. Admittedly i dont know which if any of those teams dont have their own pick next year.
Then you have the lakers who wont tank but still might end up worse than us and push us farther from the good picks.

Many many things could happen.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Markkanen is entering his prime as an NBA player. There is no way he'll sign an extension with the Jazz if it's looking like he's gonna be doing nothing but losing on a tanking/rebuilding team.

A tank doesn't stop on a dime. No matter who you draft, the losing will most likely continue for years. Look at Orlando.
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Markannen is 25 bruh. His prime is still a couple years out.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
 
fishonjazz said:
I believe the kings and hornets would join the race if they think they miss the playoffs or injuries occur to name a couple. If the blazers drop off (dame gets hurts) boom they are in the race.
I could see knicks, wizards, pacers, bulls, magic, hornets, pistons, kings, thunder, spurs and rockets all tanking. And blazers if things crumble or dame gets hurt. Maybe luka blows out a knee and then they would suck and maybe pack it in. Admittedly i dont know which if any of those teams dont have their own pick next year.
Then you have the lakers who wont tank but still might end up worse than us and push us farther from the good picks.

Many many things could happen.
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Nah man... its literally impossible for that many teams to tank.

Kings are off to a good start and DESPERATELY want to make the play in... they won't tank.
Bulls don't own their own pick unless it falls top 4... they won't be bad enough to make that make sense.
Blazers are too good even without Dame. Off to a great start and he's missed games already.
Wiz are too good to tank... had a golden opportunity last year and were like...nah.
Knicks are too good to tank - Randle and Brunson are absolute floor raisers and they have depth. Rose is fighting for his job... so is Thibs.

Rockets are ***
Magic have some good players but are ***
Pistons... same as Magic.

The maybe teams
-Hornets might be *** on accident. Ball and Hayward have missed a lot.
- OKC is too good with SGA. He is in All-NBA territory and if they shut him down for some BS it will piss him off and attract league attention. They are a 35ish win team.
- SA may shut it down and move Poeltl... but Johnson/Vassell/Jones/Poeltl/Sochan/Richardson/McDermott... is a solid NBA squad. The will win around 35 games.
- Indiana is solid with Turner... if they move Turner or he gets hurt they will tank.
- Lakers might be *** on accident and give the pick to the Pelicans which is just wild.

We can get to 6-8 range... even if one surprise team joins the tank. Still decent odds in that range.
 
Rockets, Pistons, Magic, Hornets, Pacers, Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder are all teams that we would be fighting with for draft position plus one team from the East like the Heat, Nets, Knicks, or Wizards will end up out of the play-in game by default.

Plus a team that was supposed to be in the playoffs in the West won’t be due to injury. Minnesota doesn’t look great and Sacramento could fall off.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Rockets, Pistons, Magic, Hornets, Pacers, Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder are all teams that we would be fighting with for draft position plus one team from the East like the Heat, Nets, Knicks, or Wizards will end up out of the play-in game by default.

Plus a team that was supposed to be in the playoffs in the West won’t be due to injury. Minnesota doesn’t look great and Sacramento could fall off.
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Bulls don't own their pick. Lakers don't either but might just be old and washed. If we actually make a tank move it is SA/OKC/Indiana we will need to worry about... and all are off to decent starts. I think Rockets/Pistons/Magic/Hornets are almost surely going to be below that group. A 12-18% chance at Wemby or Scoot is worth it... consolation prize of Whitmore, Whitehead, George, Thompson, Miller is just fine too.

You land Wemby or Scoot (who is tearing **** up) the rest of the rebuild gets 1000% easier. Its very much worth it even with long odds.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Bulls don't own their pick. Lakers don't either but might just be old and washed. If we actually make a tank move it is SA/OKC/Indiana we will need to worry about... and all are off to decent starts. I think Rockets/Pistons/Magic/Hornets are almost surely going to be below that group. A 12-18% chance at Wemby or Scoot is worth it... consolation prize of Whitmore, Whitehead, George, Thompson, Miller is just fine too.

You land Wemby or Scoot (who is tearing **** up) the rest of the rebuild gets 1000% easier. Its very much worth it even with long odds.
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I know the Bulls and Lakers don’t does that mean they aren’t *** still?
 
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