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The Thriller said:
Lecturing me about the difference between looking at facts and relying on feelings is hilarious. Thank you, I needed a good laugh today.
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You did not read the article. This is why you have no depth on subjects. You also have no facts. You can’t provide absolute truth on the origins. Did you just skip right over that?

You just feel like it came from the market, because of the information that you consumed. Or maybe that deep down that’s what you hope is the truth because then you wouldn’t look foolish.
You don’t know 100% because nothing is confirmed. You absolutely believe this Chinese study, even though they literally say they can not prove that the animals were infected. Yet you don’t believe FBI that says it looks like it came from the lab.

But you keep on shaming people for looking at information and feel differently than you.
 
Bucknutz said:
You did not read the article. This is why you have no depth on subjects. You also have no facts. You can’t provide absolute truth on the origins. Did you just skip right over that?

You just feel like it came from the market, because of the information that you consumed. Or maybe that deep down that’s what you hope is the truth because then you wouldn’t look foolish.
You don’t know 100% because nothing is confirmed. You absolutely believe this Chinese study, even though they literally say they can not prove that the animals were infected. Yet you don’t believe FBI that says it looks like it came from the lab.

But you keep on shaming people for looking at information and feel differently than you.
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According to this report from the Director of National Intelligence, 4 parts of the US IC (Intelligence Community) believe, with low confidence, that it came from the market, while 1 believed, with moderate confidence, that it came from the lab, and 3 said "Uhhhhh... Dunno." Since this came out, I believe 1 of the "Dunnos," the DOE, turned to "lab" with low confidence. I don't recall exactly where the FBI landed on it.

 
gandalfe said:
According to this report from the Director of National Intelligence, 4 parts of the US IC (Intelligence Community) believe, with low confidence, that it came from the market, while 1 believed, with moderate confidence, that it came from the lab, and 3 said "Uhhhhh... Dunno." Since this came out, I believe 1 of the "Dunnos," the DOE, turned to "lab" with low confidence. I don't recall exactly where the FBI landed on it.

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Exactly. We talked about this document earlier in the forum. I also posted Christopher Wray (fbi) doing an interview stating they believe it came from the lab. DOE also came out with low confidence that it came from the lab. I believe Red and Thriller posted about scientists talking about the wet markets raccoon dog as an origin as well.

When I look at all these sources, I honestly don’t have a strong opinion one way or another. To me both look viable. People shaming others to silence their opinion is what upsets me about this conversation from the beginning.

This is an interesting conversation with Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Del Bigtree about vaccines, each from either end of the issue. Del Bigtree has the position that certain people with pedigrees were silenced because they were bringing up issues. Neil said he favors the medical consensus over the individuals pedigree.


View: https://twitter.com/thechiefnerd/status/1644107524797345793?s=46&t=BMMZjW7vq0_zwnmLDjNTgQ


This is exactly how I feel:

View: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1636453969491836930?s=20
 
@Bucknutz You understand that you’re not entitled to my attention, right? I get that you get off on it. But I’ll respond to you if, when, and how I’d like and I really don’t care if it’s to your satisfaction. I don’t ignore you because because you’re finding good stories, intellectually stimulating links, or making some mind blowing argument. I find you boorish and largely a waste of time. In the past, you’ve made it clear that you don’t intend to engage in good faith arguments, you just want to troll. I have you on ignore most of the time because I quite frankly don’t have the time or patience to argue with someone like that.

1) Let me be clear, I don’t rely on feelings. I let evidence guide me to my political views and opinions. I’m first and foremost, a policy driven person, not a tribal warrior. I have changed views in light of experience and better arguments. I might seem tribal against your GOP because I recognize the warning signs for authoritarianism that many fellow historians and political scientists see. It’s not because I’m loyal to Democrats or Biden. Frankly, Biden just doesn’t have the personality to become a cult of personality, unlike Trump.

2) I believe in what the major intelligence services and institutions in this country believe the origin of Covid to be. I also believe in the effectiveness of vaccines. Again, I’m a policy driven person. I don’t need to stick flashlights up my *** to feel loyal to my dear leader.

3) I want to make it clear that we all know what Tom Cotton and Republicans were doing right from the get go with blaming this on a Covid lab leak. It wasn’t based on evidence. It was based on nationalism. Even today, your “tribe” insinuates that it came from a lab as some sort of bio weapon. That way they can fan the flames of nationalism and incoherent conspiracy involving Fauci, Biden, Soros, etc. the truth is likely more straightforward;

a) it most likely originated from an animal at the west market.
Or
b) it originated from an animal, had a sample maintained at the lab, and was leaked from the lab.

I know it’s a lot less exciting to believe what the evidence suggests. I know it “feels” better to think that the liberals and Chinese ganged together against Orange God King to end his presidency. But that’s what the evidence suggests. And that’s why I don’t engage in this “lab leak” theory. Your side is trying to weaponize it into something that isn’t supported by evidence, But it certainly makes you “feel” good.
 
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“Feeling” is what you see people on both sides of the political aisle prioritize but it’s becoming increasingly the focus on the right.

“I feel like my country is changing and I don’t like it.”
“I feel like Covid was made up by Fauci and vaccines don’t work.”
“I feel like Bud lite shouldn’t support the gays so I’m gonna boycott them!”
“I feel like the LGBT community is weird so let’s ban them.”
“I feel like history and books should coddle to my interests, so let’s cancel courses, ban books, intimidate educators and librarians, etc. I should feel comfortable and only me.”
“I feel like those two black Democrats from Nashville were gettin too uppidty so let’s expel them!”
“I feel like my candidate won so therefore Jan 6 was justified.”

It’s a sign of the rampant narcissism throughout the country that diminishes experts and expertise. It’s why Tucker, Hannity, etc keep shoveling garbage for their viewing narcissists to swallow down. They can’t handle the truth so we need to continue to feed into their fantasy of grievance.
 
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The Thriller said:
@Bucknutz You understand that you’re not entitled to my attention, right? I get that you get off on it. But I’ll respond to you if, when, and how I’d like and I really don’t care if it’s to your satisfaction. I don’t ignore you because because you’re finding good stories, intellectually stimulating links, or making some mind blowing argument. Honestly, you never would’ve been able to pass any of the courses I used to teach at my university. I find you boorish and arrogant. I have you on ignore most of the time because I quite frankly don’t have the time or patience to argue with someone who is sworn to defending his tribe/ideology.

1) Let me be clear, I don’t rely on feelings. I let evidence guide me to my political views and opinions. I’m first and foremost, a policy driven person, not a tribal warrior.

2) I believe in what the major intelligence services and institutions in this country believe the origin of Covid to be. I also believe in the effectiveness of vaccines. Again, I’m a policy driven person. I don’t need to stick flashlights up my *** to feel loyal to my dear leader.

3) I want to make it clear that we all know what Tom Cotton and Republicans were doing right from the get go with blaming this on a Covid lab leak. It wasn’t based on evidence. It was based on nationalism. Even today, your “tribe” insinuates that it came from a lab as some sort of bio weapon. That way they can fan the flames of nationalism and incoherent conspiracy involving Fauci, Biden, Soros, etc. the truth is likely more straightforward;

a) it most likely originated from an animal at the west market.
Or
b) it originated from an animal, had a sample maintained at the lab, and was leaked from the lab.

I know it’s a lot less exciting to believe what the evidence suggests. I know it “feels” better to think that the liberals and Chinese ganged together against Orange God King to end his presidency. But that’s what the evidence suggests. And that’s why I don’t engage in this “lab leak” theory. Your side is trying to weaponize it into something that isn’t supported by evidence. But it certainly makes you “feel” good.

**** your feelings.
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Also, for the argument that "Oh, it just HAPPENED to start right by a lab that was specifically set up to examine this kind of pathogen," I have to ask, "Why was the lab put there?" Obviously, it was there because of the proximity to vast numbers of bats that harbor constantly mutating viruses of this type. That's public record. Also, DUH.
 
gandalfe said:
Also, for the argument that "Oh, it just HAPPENED to start right by a lab that was specifically set up to examine this kind of pathogen," I have to ask, "Why was the lab put there?" Obviously, it was there because of the proximity to vast numbers of bats that harbor constantly mutating viruses of this type. That's public record. Also, DUH.
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Exactly.

I find it interesting that the same folks whining about the dangers of the vaccine also whine about the lab. I wish they’d make up their minds. These labs exist to study these viruses so that we can learn from them. So that lives can be saved. Want to mitigate against another Covid? Want to develop vaccines? Well, labs are needed! You can’t advocate against vaccines and companies testing their vaccines on these viruses AND advocate against these types of labs. You’re only setting us up for failure. Those peddling these “lab leak” conspiracies aren’t arguing in good faith. They know what they’re doing and it’s disgraceful.

They’re peddling the lab leak conspiracy not to inform or to discuss the proper role of these types of labs and the importance of collaboration within the scientific community. They’re not advocating for safety reforms or regulations. They’re peddling the lab leak conspiracy so they can tell their tribe that “China created a bio weapon with the help of Fauci and the Dems and (insert whatever liberals and Hungarian Jews the right is targeting this week) to destroy Trump and hurt America!” It’s just more “America First” garbage stuff that juices the base but in the end… what does it solve?

At least it makes surface level tribal warriors “feel” better? I guess that’s what this conspiracy solves? I know on Fox News it’s been used as a springboard to attack Fauci and claim that Democrats teamed up with China to hurt Trump with Covid. As if defeating Trump was the only thing the planet wanted back in 2019-2020. But narcissists have gotta be fed, right?
 
urbancare.clinic

Switzerland No Longer Recommends COVID-19 Vaccination: Here's Why - Urban Care Clinic

The Swiss government has decided to stop recommending COVID-19 vaccination to its people.
urbancare.clinic urbancare.clinic

Switzerland basically ending their vaccination program. Reason being basically everyone has either been exposed to Covid or had some previous vaccination. People very at risk can still get another Covid jab following consultation with their personal doctor. They aren't even recommending doses for at risk people, rather leaving it as a matter for their personalized health care. Yet another country who seem to have health officials who can read and comprehend and aren't joined at the hip to pharmaceutical companies actually following the data and evidence.

meanwhile the CDC still trying to jab kids from 6 months old and on.
 
Douchebag K said:
urbancare.clinic

Switzerland No Longer Recommends COVID-19 Vaccination: Here's Why - Urban Care Clinic

The Swiss government has decided to stop recommending COVID-19 vaccination to its people.
urbancare.clinic urbancare.clinic

Switzerland basically ending their vaccination program. Reason being basically everyone has either been exposed to Covid or had some previous vaccination. People very at risk can still get another Covid jab following consultation with their personal doctor. They aren't even recommending doses for at risk people, rather leaving it as a matter for their personalized health care. Yet another country who seem to have health officials who can read and comprehend and aren't joined at the hip to pharmaceutical companies actually following the data and evidence.

meanwhile the CDC still trying to jab kids from 6 months old and on.
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Its funny cause only time i ever hear anything about vaccines anymore is in this thread.
 
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