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Knicks vs Cavs 1st Round Series (Mitchell Getting *** Whooped by Brunson Season 2)

It's kinda sad to see how flawed Mitchell and Gobert are, that their skillsets complemented each others' skillsets almost perfectly, and that there was obviously such a (stupid) rift between them. The ceiling of the last build was almost certainly capped because of those flaws, but I also think they could've gone farther and lasted longer had they not had their weird passive aggressive beef that I still can't entirely make sense of.
 
NUMBERICA said:
It's kinda sad to see how flawed Mitchell and Gobert are, that their skillsets complemented each others' skillsets almost perfectly, and that there was obviously such a (stupid) rift between them. The ceiling of the last build was almost certainly capped because of those flaws, but I also think they could've gone farther and lasted longer had they not had their weird passive aggressive beef that I still can't entirely make sense of.
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Or if there was a coach with a modicum of assertiveness and confident leadership capacity.
 
NUMBERICA said:
It's kinda sad to see how flawed Mitchell and Gobert are, that their skillsets complemented each others' skillsets almost perfectly, and that there was obviously such a (stupid) rift between them. The ceiling of the last build was almost certainly capped because of those flaws, but I also think they could've gone farther and lasted longer had they not had their weird passive aggressive beef that I still can't entirely make sense of.
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Snyder crafted a masterful system around them. He's the GOAT.
 
NUMBERICA said:
It's kinda sad to see how flawed Mitchell and Gobert are, that their skillsets complemented each others' skillsets almost perfectly, and that there was obviously such a (stupid) rift between them. The ceiling of the last build was almost certainly capped because of those flaws, but I also think they could've gone farther and lasted longer had they not had their weird passive aggressive beef that I still can't entirely make sense of.
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Yeah…I actually think they did a lot for each other on the court. Even though they were flawed, I do think the undoing of the Jazz was that the FO did a terrible job of building around them. Probably wouldn’t have been enough to win a title, winning a title is very hard, but had the Jazz done a little better I’m fairly positive they would both be in a Jazz uniform and with a better team I’d like to see how they’d do in the current western conference.

I wish the FO tried something…anything at all. Switching the coach alone could have helped a lot. I feel like there was arrogance from top to bottom. The FO felt no need to address flaws, Quin made no attempt to change his ways, and Rudy+Don didn’t want to change either. Everyone was content to do the same thing over and over even though they were getting embarrassed.
 
KqWIN said:
Yeah…I actually think they did a lot for each other on the court. Even though they were flawed, I do think the undoing of the Jazz was that the FO did a terrible job of building around them. Probably wouldn’t have been enough to win a title, winning a title is very hard, but had the Jazz done a little better I’m fairly positive they would both be in a Jazz uniform and with a better team I’d like to see how they’d do in the current western conference.

I wish the FO tried something…anything at all. Switching the coach alone could have helped a lot. I feel like there was arrogance from top to bottom. The FO felt no need to address flaws, Quin made no attempt to change his ways, and Rudy+Don didn’t want to change either. Everyone was content to do the same thing over and over even though they were getting embarrassed.
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Jazz built around them great. The reality is that Bojan injured his hand before the bubble, that really hurt Utah that year. Then Conley had his hamstring happen. Then too many of the key pieces aged out.

Utah had a small window because that's how the NBA works unless you have generational stars and they missed the window due to injury and choking. That's on the players more than anything IMO.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Jazz built around them great. The reality is that Bojan injured his hand before the bubble, that really hurt Utah that year. Then Conley had his hamstring happen. Then too many of the key pieces aged out.

Utah had a small window because that's how the NBA works unless you have generational stars and they missed the window due to injury and choking. That's on the players more than anything IMO.
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I think there is valid criticism in going so hard on getting (but probably more on keeping) old dudes. I still can't help but wonder if they were just scared off by Jimmy Butler such that they never even explored going after him in 2019 (or if they would've went after Caruso with the Room MLE instead of Ed Davis). I can't help but wonder what might've happened if they would've drafted one of the two obvious players to draft when Dok was on the board in 2020. I can't help but wonder what might've happened if they would've prioritized getting Lauri in 2021 when he was just flapping in the wind during his restricted free agency or Lonzo, who was seemingly acquired for peanuts (I do wonder if NOP knew it was just a matter of time before his knee quit).

The Jazz had to hit their moves on the margins and probably should've looked to cash in on their already aging vets as soon as there was a deal for something more balanced and less old. They didn't, but they at least shot their shot in 2019.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
I think there is valid criticism in going so hard on getting (but probably more on keeping) old dudes. I still can't help but wonder if they were just scared off by Jimmy Butler such that they never even explored going after him in 2019 (or if they would've went after Caruso with the Room MLE instead of Ed Davis). I can't help but wonder what might've happened if they would've drafted one of the two obvious players to draft when Dok was on the board in 2020. I can't help but wonder what might've happened if they would've prioritized getting Lauri in 2021 when he was just flapping in the wind during his restricted free agency or Lonzo, who was seemingly acquired for peanuts (I do wonder if NOP knew it was just a matter of time before his knee quit).

The Jazz had to hit their moves on the margins and probably should've looked to cash in on their already aging vets as soon as there was a deal for something more balanced and less old. They didn't, but they at least tried.
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I would say they did hit some moves on the margins, or at least enough of them. The Jazz had two really good shots at it. If Bogey/Conley are completely healthy those two years, I think the Jazz get to a Conference Finals and then maybe the weird stench around the core never materializes.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I think there is valid criticism in going so hard on getting (but probably more on keeping) old dudes. I still can't help but wonder if they were just scared off by Jimmy Butler such that they never even explored going after him in 2019 (or if they would've went after Caruso with the Room MLE instead of Ed Davis). I can't help but wonder what might've happened if they would've drafted one of the two obvious players to draft when Dok was on the board in 2020. I can't help but wonder what might've happened if they would've prioritized getting Lauri in 2021 when he was just flapping in the wind during his restricted free agency or Lonzo, who was seemingly acquired for peanuts (I do wonder if NOP knew it was just a matter of time before his knee quit).

The Jazz had to hit their moves on the margins and probably should've looked to cash in on their already aging vets as soon as there was a deal for something more balanced and less old. They didn't, but they at least tried.
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Or if they had done better math in 2020 such that they didn't burn a platter of 2nds to get under the tax only to still fail and instead using those picks for anything else. Or just doing almost anything besides boarding the Favors Express again (at the MLE) knowing his medical problems that cost them a 1st that they could've used for anything besides a salary dump. Or not ****ing around in the 2021 draft/using that pick in a trade for a player (this is the offseason that Lauri went for a protected first and Lonzo went for a 2nd and totally mediocre players as salary ballast) rather than doing what they did.

It was clear even in 2019 that they still needed to find a way to make two more jumps and they had to be wise about every marginal move to make it happen. Exum for Clarkson honestly might've kept the build alive for a couple of seasons because '19-'20 was looking dicey until that point. But they needed something else. You can't hit every move mentioned above, but they were clearly at least one piece and some youth from being a serious team and they just didn't make those deals.
 
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