Knicks vs Cavs 1st Round Series (Mitchell Getting *** Whooped by Brunson Season 2)

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Mitchell only has 3 top 5 picks playing with him on the Cavs. Not enough talent to criticize him.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We can't blame Donny Boy because the Cavs don't have a perfect roster is funny stuff

I mean, I'm not nearly as into the sport of hating on Donovan and baiting LoPo, but we kinda can blame Donovan for them having major roster problems. They traded who would've been their SF of the future and Lauri and Sexton and picks for Don. This was their swing, so it kinda has to work out. I don't know how they build from here. Hope they can sign someone with the MLE? Hit on somebody in the 2nd? Trading Jarrett Allen, which, okay I guess.

The big thing happening here for - you know, Jazz fans - is that the Cavs look like they're headed for some painful years right when they begin to owe the Jazz their draft for five consecutive years. I'm here for their pain.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean, I'm not nearly as into the sport of hating on Donovan and baiting LoPo, but we kinda can blame Donovan for them having major roster problems. They traded who would've been their SF of the future and Lauri and Sexton and picks for Don. This was their swing, so it kinda has to work out. I don't know how they build from here. Hope they can sign someone with the MLE? Hit on somebody in the 2nd? Trading Jarrett Allen, which, okay I guess.

The big thing happening here for - you know, Jazz fans - is that the Cavs look like they're headed for some painful years right when they begin to owe the Jazz their draft for five consecutive years. I'm here for their pain.

The big thing we heard all year is how Garland was finally the guy who could help take pressure off Donovan. They were going to be this unstoppable 1-2 punch with great defenders to pair with them. Truth is Donovan doesn't make players around him better so building a roster around him is always going to be tough

They got to get some hits on minimum types. They got to figure out if they can maximize Mobley offensively better than they have.

 

[Eminence]

Depends on the shot, but even 40% FG translates to a pretty decent 80% FT percentage.

I definitely agree that being able to draw fouls is a good skill, I just think the "points per shot" counting is pretty useless. The time you were fouled was also a possession, very often a shot. At the very least, no one else on your team had a shot. It makes zero sense to me to not count those when you count points per "shot".

That only works if the player is only shooting 1 FT. Players shoot 2 on shooting fouls more often than not. 40% FG% = 40% FT% most of the time (on 2s, 60% for 3s).

Foul drawing is a crazy valuable offensive skill (Harden level baiting sucks to watch though).

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Goes to show you don't trade major assets for a star that does not fit with your team goals and roster. Their backcourt is too small (Utah saw that with Don and Mike) and to make it worse Cle had two high usage backcourt players that are clearly affecting Mobley's ability to get the ball. They are also missing Lauri, and Ochai is already more consistent than all their SFs.

I watch the Cavs a lot last year, and thought even then Mobley needs the ball more to develop. Then before the trade the Cavs said they are revamping their offense to run through Mobley, which I think would have been amazing. Then the trade happened and Mobley's touches have basically been the same.

They need more pieces, but don't have much to trade to add to the roster, so hopefully for them they do well in FA, and hopefully for the Jazz they strike out and have to blow it up!

 

[infection]

I hate to do a pile on but I’m curious if you feel the Cavs have built around Donovan and what exactly that means, because earlier in the thread you said that Donovan looked good with a team built around him, speaking of the current Cavs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You know what... good on @LoPo to come take this... he could have gone silent Dillon Brooks style but he showed back up.

 

[KqWIN]

So obviously everyone wants to **** on Don….and for good reason. But this series is also inspiration for this Jazz FO. The Knicks made so many good moves on the margin to build this team. Believe it or not, but you can be on the opposite side of the humiliating defeat….you can be the one handing it out.

The Knicks never caught a big break by drafting a superstar player. No Luka, Zion, Trae, Edwards etc. But they are in a much better spot than the teams that did, and they have enough trade capital to go out and get a star through trade if one is available. Also have cap space options.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

You know what... good on @LoPo to come take this... he could have gone silent Dillon Brooks style but he showed back up.

If he took the L I'd agree.

 

[gomretat]

There are clearly flaws with the Cleveland roster. I also think putting this on Donny rather than the team is unfair and I am one that was glad to see him traded. He has plenty of time to keep learning and become a guy who carries a team. That being said, I see no scenario under which anyone can say that Cleveland seasons was not a disappointment.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Much more evidence that Mitchell is awesome in the playoffs. Only last year says otherwise. Very excited to see how it goes. I’m predicting he’s still awesome.

Huge L for me.

He's either at his best or absolute worst in the playoffs. And the ratio is going down over time.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If he took the L I'd agree.

No one ever takes the L though on the internet. Cy will tell you he was right about Walker Kessler going to the G League.

 

[HeatCheck]

That Cav team is Charmin soft. Garland and the Mobley/Allen frontcourt hate contact of any kind.

I give Mobley a pass as he's still a 21 year old baby giraffe.

They don't have any assets to build that roster. My guess is eventually both the frontcourt and the Garland/Don backcourt will need to be broken up.

I ended up watching a few games in the Knick series and Don played like crap. Honestly didn't look anything like the same happy guy who was balling during his first 2 years here in Utah.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There is a blame pie here. Don takes a good portion... the Cleveland FO takes a good portion and Bernie takes a fair amount... sad deal is that Bernie will end up being the one fired. The team had no depth (why buy out Love... just keep him in case you need a little help or have an injury) and no shooters. Here is the rub though...

Don is small so needs rim protection and good wings around him that shoot and play defense. Don can't seem to get those non-shooting bigs involved enough on offense. So he needs a unicorn. He also can't play alongside another small guy or they get hunted and lit up... he also isn't a good enough passer to play pg all the time... so needs some ball handling and passing next to him. All of this is to win a title... so yeah still very good and will get you to the playoffs... but will have some limitations.

The real cautionary tale here is don't marry yourself to players that have flaws that you have to plan everything around... if you can help it.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

This series made me think about what our season could have looked like if we added Josh Hart at the deadline instead of sold the farm. Could we have got the 6 or 7 seed and faired well against SAC or MEM?

 

[kcgar]

I really have no idea

 

[Flc]

They've got one last year to make it work. I think they probably trade Allen for a veteran wing or two, but who knows if it'll be pennies on the dollar.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I hate to do a pile on but I’m curious if you feel the Cavs have built around Donovan and what exactly that means, because earlier in the thread you said that Donovan looked good with a team built around him, speaking of the current Cavs.

Well I'll tell you how you can build a team around Don, but as HH alluded to, it isn't easy or simple:
-A big PG or point forward to allow him to play as the secondary creator and to also have a solvent defensive lineup (this is why I was always talking about how basically irreplaceable Ingles was, and judging by how last year went, I'd say that was more correct than I even knew)
-A high-level 3&D wing to further reinforce the defense (but you really have to be sure that you have this rare big PG-type player or else you have a catastrophic shortage of creation on the perimeter [and since Ingles was also this, it further reinforced how critical he was to the Jazz's success])
-At least one shooting big or modern 4 (the Jazz never figured this out to a glaring degree; Jazz had either shooting or big men, never a modern 4)
-A high level defensive big (Gobert)

All of the above can fit in any context, but Donovan doesn't fit every context (you have to create the context around him). Gobert is similar in this respect, but I think it's far simpler to build around a Gobert than it is a Mitchell.

I don't know where I'm going here except maybe that with Lauri, you just have to be sure you have a good defensive big next to him and a half decent PG. In other words, not just run-of-the-mill, common player types, but actually the least appreciated player types in the modern NBA. In other words, really easy to build around.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Is Donovan Mitchell the new McGrady? Lights up the regular season, then proceeds to drop the ball and choke in the playoffs. He seems more humble than Tracy, and he's had more playoff success, but dammit man seems like he's the new king of 1st round exits/playoff chokejobs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Well I'll tell you how you can build a team around Don, but as HH alluded to, it isn't easy or simple:
-A big PG or point forward to allow him to play as the secondary creator and to also have a solvent defensive lineup (this is why I was always talking about how basically irreplaceable Ingles was, and judging by how last year went, I'd say that was more correct than I even knew)
-A high-level 3&D wing to further reinforce the defense (but you really have to be sure that you have this rare big PG-type player or else you have a catastrophic shortage of creation on the perimeter [and since Ingles was also this, it further reinforced how critical he was to the Jazz's success])
-At least one shooting big or modern 4 (the Jazz never figured this out to a glaring degree; Jazz had either shooting or big men, never a modern 4)
-A high level defensive big (Gobert)

All of the above can fit in any context, but Donovan doesn't fit every context (you have to create the context around him). Gobert is similar in this respect, but I think it's far simpler to build around a Gobert than it is a Mitchell.

I don't know where I'm going here except maybe that with Lauri, you just have to be sure you have a good defensive big next to him and a half decent PG. In other words, not just run-of-the-mill, common player types, but actually the least appreciated player types in the modern NBA. In other words, really easy to build around.

Lauri is just such a flexible piece... you almost don't have to think about what he needs... you think about what he can give you if you get other pieces. He would be good with a big rim protector like Walker... but he could also thrive with a switchy playmaking big like Bam.

Guys like Jaylen Brown, Tatum, Lauri, Mikal Bridges offer such flexibility that they don't have to be STARS because they can be stars and allow everyone around them to be the best versions of themselves. If you can find a way to land another flexible starter without giving away the farm then you really have something. You can then go get the small guard at a discount or the Demar Derozan that can score 20-25 but has some limitations... and you can be fine. The NBA might be changing... never been more uncertainty about who is winning the title. You might be able to win a title with Lauri and another player at his level... so long as they are flexible to allow Walker to be Walker etc.