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Jazz Suns trade

Tremendous Upside said:
It really takes a special kind of nerve to be a fan of the 24-25 Jazz and scoff at the Suns – a club making big time win-now moves while spending a **** ton of money – for being "in purgatory" or "NBA hell".

If that's purgatory... I'll have some of it, please.
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I really want to know. How are you so consistently wrong about everything? Every single take. You're like ChatGPT for awful basketball opinions - and I'm not even criticizing, it's so remarkably consistent and constant that I'd even admire it if it were a troll job instead of your actual opinion. You're like Kendrick Perkins if he was white, autistic and didn't have a media platform.
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
I think it's pretty obvious that the Suns are using those picks to improve their roster in the short-term. I think I like this move for us, but I'm gonna have to stew on it.
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I struggle to find that the heat significantly favor 3 bad picks over one potentially very good pick. I guess it is because the their time horizon is now vs 6 years from now.
 
Draft Flagg with our pick at #1.

Trade Minny’s pick at #11 and this Suns pick to move up and draft Jakucionis or Maluach depending on other roster movement and how the youth play the rest of the way.
 
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silesian said:
I struggle to find that the heat significantly favor 3 bad picks over one potentially very good pick. I guess it is because the their time horizon is now vs 6 years from now.
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Suns aren't handing over all 3 picks to the Heat. If we get a 4 or 5 team trade, those picks will need to be spread everywhere.
 
idiot said:
Beginning to wonder whether the Suns made the trade without any semi-firm thing lined up to follow up with.

Maybe they just calculated that the three picks will serve them better no matter what does or doesn't happen with Butler?
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Don’t quote me on this, but the three picks the Suns got from UTA also allows them to skirt by the Stephen rule. The Suns had traded all their picks in odd years (except for 32) and have swaps in the even years. The Stepien rule does not require that the picks must be from the original team, so the suns effectively now have first rounders in 25/27/29. This means that they can now trade the swaps. Being on the bad end of those swaps makes those picks unappealing though.

For example, they have many pick swaps with WAS. They get the lesser of those two picks and before this Jazz trade they could not move from that. Now that they have picks in the odd years they can move those.

Besides the straight value of the 3 for 1 trade, it added some flexibility to their unique situation and ability to keep doubling down lol.
 
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KqWIN said:
Don’t quote me on this, but the three picks the Suns got from UTA also allows them to skirt by the Stephen rule. The Suns had traded all their picks in odd years (except for 32) and have swaps in the even years. The Stepien rule does not require that the picks must be from the original team, so the suns effectively now have first rounders in 25/27/29. This means that they can now trade the swaps.

For example, they have many pick swaps with WAS. They get the lesser of those two picks and before this Jazz trade they could not move from that. Now that they have picks in the odd years they can move those.

Besides the straight value of the 3 for 1 trade, it added some flexibility to their unique situation and ability to keep doubling down lol.
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This is correct. As I understand it they get the lesser of the Phoenix and Washington 2026/2028 firsts but its complex because there are other protections and things looped in... I think that is where it boils down. I would not be surprised if they used one of those to trade for Jimmy and the other to move Nurk. I also wouldn't be surprised if they split the three between sending out Beal, getting Jimmy, and moving Nurkic. Either way those picks should not unpack until february 6th... they may be on the move real quick.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This is correct. As I understand it they get the lesser of the Phoenix and Washington 2026/2028 firsts but its complex because there are other protections and things looped in... I think that is where it boils down. I would not be surprised if they used one of those to trade for Jimmy and the other to move Nurk. I also wouldn't be surprised if they split the three between sending out Beal, getting Jimmy, and moving Nurkic. Either way those picks should not unpack until february 6th... they may be on the move real quick.
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I'm not sure how much the added "flexibility" of trading their swapped picks will really help them, but it can only be seen as a good thing that PHX has more ways to double down on KD/Butler at the expense of their future. I hope it goes well for them and KD/Butler have a nice twilight stage of their career. The longer they go, the more PHX will continue to F themselves long term.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
It really takes a special kind of nerve to be a fan of the 24-25 Jazz and scoff at the Suns – a club making big time win-now moves while spending a **** ton of money – for being "in purgatory" or "NBA hell".

If that's purgatory... I'll have some of it, please.

So the Suns are not exactly planning seven years into the future like the galaxy brain Jazz FO. So what? The NBA moves fast. It's too chaotic. Who knows what's happening even two years from now?

Two years ago the Jazz were in the perfect position for a pivot. They had an All-Star coming into his prime, several promising young players, some steady vets, and an absolute treasure chest of assets for buying reinforcements. On top of that, the team was already beginning to win.

In that situation, you take one look at what you have and say "**** it we ball".
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Okay, first of all, the Suns are a luxury tax team relying on an aging star who are .500, are currently a 10th seed, and have given away their most valuable draft capital for the next 5 years. There is literally nothing enviable about their situation.

Second of all, the Jazz were a team with a broken system for the playoffs. Donovan Mitchell was going to leave the Jazz within 2 years, so the Jazz needed to get value for him. They got Lauri and Sexton, plus future draft assets. Ochai factored into getting Isaiah Collier. It was a good decision.
 
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KqWIN said:
I'm not sure how much the added "flexibility" of trading their swapped picks will really help them, but it can only be seen as a good thing that PHX has more ways to double down on KD/Butler at the expense of their future. I hope it goes well for them and KD/Butler have a nice twilight stage of their career. The longer they go, the more PHX will continue to F themselves long term.
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If they give Miami the 2027 pick, this will also unlock the ability for Miami to trade their 26 and 28 picks. The importance of these picks isn't necessarily the pick value, but the mechanism teams can use to bypass the Stepien Rule. I hope we never again find ourselves in this situation where we would need to do stuff like this, though.
 
framer said:
If they give Miami the 2027 pick, this will also unlock the ability for Miami to trade their 26 and 28 picks. The importance of these picks isn't necessarily the pick value, but the mechanism teams can use to bypass the Stepien Rule. I hope we never again find ourselves in this situation where we would need to do stuff like this, though.
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It could conditionally do that but the issue is they owe one pick to the Thunder that is lotto protected one year and rolls forward and then 2 years after that conveys they have the same thing so I think it would have to be conditional.

If they miss the playoffs this year the 26 pick goes to the thunder unprotected and the 28 goes to the Hornets unprotected. So actually they can't really trade those as they are encumbered one way or another. The Rozier trade was a disaster.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It could conditionally do that but the issue is they owe one pick to the Thunder that is lotto protected one year and rolls forward and then 2 years after that conveys they have the same thing so I think it would have to be conditional.

If they miss the playoffs this year the 26 pick goes to the thunder unprotected and the 28 goes to the Hornets unprotected. So actually they can't really trade those as they are encumbered one way or another. The Rozier trade was a disaster.
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IF they make the playoffs they could trade the 2026 pick next year and 2028 conditionally based on making the playoffs next year. Its tough to get value for those picks when the terms and conditions get that murky.
 
Step-Back Lauri said:
Good trade. Jazz has so many average/at most borderline all star ceiling young guys already and it's unlikely to get any significantly better with those 25, 27, 29 late firsts. In 2031, Jazz is projected to be a deep playoff team, who will also going to have the possible studs from -25 and -26 drafts in their 2nd contracts, as well as any of these current players on rookie contracts. At that point, it's really great having picks to add talent for the team, or if lucky, getting another star from the draft. And Jazz has still a load of picks in the future after this trade, to try acquire all star player via trade. Good trade.
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So, you going to make that bet and put your money where your mouth is?
 
Yeah
framer said:
Suns aren't handing over all 3 picks to the Heat. If we get a 4 or 5 team trade, those picks will need to be spread everywhere.
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Probably right but the point being the net value of three being greater than 1, in the POV if suns front office.
 
slc said:
So can Suns cancel the trade they made with Jazz since no players
were involved
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I'm fine either way. I was/am pretty meh about it anyway.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Second of all, the Jazz were a team with a broken system for the playoffs. Donovan Mitchell was going to leave the Jazz within 2 years, so the Jazz needed to get value for him. They got Lauri and Sexton, plus future draft assets. Ochai factored into getting Isaiah Collier. It was a good decision.
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Obviously I was referring to the first half of the 22-23 season. That team deserved the chance to see what it could do. If Ainge had brought in reinforcements at the deadline (he certainly had the means), who knows where we would be at this point.

Instead, he made the baffling decision to blow up a team that had, by an incredible stroke of luck, stumbled onto the exact type of dude you tank for (Lauri) who was starting his prime but was still young.

I mean, maybe they simply didn't see a franchise guy in Lauri. That's fair. But if he was deemed somewhat replacable and a tank was looming as a consequence, then you absolutely have to trade him ASAP to make use of Lauri's sky high market value back then. By not doing so, Ainge really doubled down on the mistake of taking his foot off the gas pedal in 22-23.

Instead of turning Lauri into a fantastic pile of high value assets, they held on to him while stil tearing the team down around him, and ended up giving him a crazy max deal. Now Lauri's looking more and more like just a guy and his contract is sliding into albatross territory.
 
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Flc said:
I really want to know. How are you so consistently wrong about everything? Every single take. You're like ChatGPT for awful basketball opinions - and I'm not even criticizing, it's so remarkably consistent and constant that I'd even admire it if it were a troll job instead of your actual opinion. You're like Kendrick Perkins if he was white, autistic and didn't have a media platform.
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Finished?

If so, please tell me where I was wrong instead of resorting to the tired ad hominems.

And pay attention to the fact that I'm talking about what went on in the 22-23 season. This is not about the Donovan trade. Ferguson already messed that one up.
 
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