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Clayton or Collier?

Who Will Be Better?

  • Collier

  • Clayton

Results are only viewable after voting.
str8line said:
WCJ is a 89% FT shooter. Collier is 68%. That is a very good predictor of shooting success overall.
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Do you remember what Karl’s ft% was his first season? As I said before, see who has the better shooting % by season’s end. I guess it’s sexy for some but I’m not a huge fan of a PG that casts one up from the logo early in the shot clock!
 
People really need to stop comparing collier to Stockton. I get it, many of you are too young to have watched Stockton actually play. You use analytics to somehow make it sound like Collier is a good point guard or somehow comparable to Stockton. However, I actually did watch Stockton and can tell you that it’s utterly absurd the comparisons being made. I really don’t care what the per 21.5847373 per 25.48585 per 40 stats say. They’re both human beings that played for the Jazz and that’s where the comparison should end.
 
The Thriller said:
Clayton

But neither is the option for starting material. Clayton might be a good Bobby Jackson like player off the bench. Collier is a premium athlete but his poor decision making and lack of a shot almost make him unplayable. We’ll need to draft a real point guard at some point.

Can Deron come back for a year or two?
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Agreed. Both should be fine rotation players but don't want either as my starting PG.

This year needs to be about getting the ball to Lauri (to rebuild his trade value) and Ace (for development reasons). Not sure I trust either one to focus on doing that, when both will likely be looking to establish themselves in this league while also looking for their own shots.
 
The Thriller said:
People really need to stop comparing collier to Stockton. I get it, many of you are too young to have watched Stockton actually play. You use analytics to somehow make it sound like Collier is a good point guard or somehow comparable to Stockton. However, I actually did watch Stockton and can tell you that it’s utterly absurd the comparisons being made. I really don’t care what the per 21.5847373 per 25.48585 per 40 stats say. They’re both human beings that played for the Jazz and that’s where the comparison should end.
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Pretty black and white wouldn’t you say?
 
I'm on the record right now that Clayton is special and he's going to be a starter for us, and it's going to happen soon if he's healthy. I hope the hammy doesnt wreck his rookie season.
 
sip said:
Collier is not super quick and anyone with eyes can see that. I never said anything about strength. As far as shooting goes it is not even up for debate that Clayton is a better 3pt shooter. Teams are never going to go out of their way to let him take clean 3pt looks. With Collier they will at this point. That is one of the reasons you can't judge strictly by 3pt percentages because one guy may be given cleaner looks by the opponents because that is their game plan while the other is guarded closely to minimize clean looks. It is pretty clear who the opposing team considers to be the much better shooter even though both may shoot a similar percentage.
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Wait, wut!? Collier is obviously very fast end-to-end, and exceptionally fast with a live dribble.
 
Our PG candidates:

1. WJC
2. Collier
3. Keyonte

Stregnths:

WJC: Shooting %, mental acuity, hunter mentality, game speed already slow for him, winner, good shot selection
Collier: General athleticism, breaking the paint, strength, passing (34.18%.assist percentage last year)
Keyonte: Getting a shot off, off ball passing, experience, works as a combo player, ceiling


Weaknesses:

WJC: length, defense
Collier: mistake prone/turnovers, shooting percentage, mental game generally
Keyonte: Shot selection, attitude, moving w/o the ball, length/strength, all aspects of defense, floor


Just looking at this list, to me it is WJC unless Collier fixes his shot or Keyonte starts playing average NBA defense instead of worst in the league. In previous eras a PG with a weak shot could still be a starter. Not now- especially when WJC seems to have a Curry-esque game to him. Keyonte has similar issues to why we dumped Sexton and unless he fixes those, he's destined to a similar fate.
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
What’s the news on his hamstring?
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Hopefully good news but anytime a player goes out with a hamstring we hear optimism then BAM! how many hammy's have wrecked Jazz players over the years by coming back too early? Can't remember specifics but it seems like we've been through quite a few.
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
Wait, wut!? Collier is obviously very fast end-to-end, and exceptionally fast with a live dribble.
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Collier is not as fast as you are making him out to be. He is a good athlete but I don't view him as one of those incredibly quick pg's that can get to his spots almost any time he wants. As of now I like him as a prospect but if he doesn't become a decent outside shooter he is going to have a hard time making things happen when defenses tighten down. Right now when that happens he goes to bully ball since he is built like a tank and the results aren't particularly good. He's only 20 though so he should still have plenty of improvement in his future if the work ethic is there.
 
If Keyonte had any heart I'd say Keyonte. But he's a butt-hurt, no defense, pouting little bitch. What are the odds he becomes a man and gives 100% effort on D?
 
WCJ has more paths to getting on the floor than Collier because of his ability to breakdown defenses while playing off-ball. WCJ is literally perfect for Hardy’s off-ball pin-down actions. If defenses don’t play that correctly, I think Walt can make them pay right away (on 40-42% 3-pt shooting).

Just something to consider—because, for example, Keynote could push into Collier’s minutes, and that wouldn’t necessarily have a huge impact on WCJ.
 
sip said:
Collier is not as fast as you are making him out to be. He is a good athlete but I don't view him as one of those incredibly quick pg's that can get to his spots almost any time he wants. As of now I like him as a prospect but if he doesn't become a decent outside shooter he is going to have a hard time making things happen when defenses tighten down. Right now when that happens he goes to bully ball since he is built like a tank and the results aren't particularly good. He's only 20 though so he should still have plenty of improvement in his future if the work ethic is there.
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I’m sorry, but you’re just flat wrong about his speed.
 
NAOS_pt2 said:
WCJ has more paths to getting on the floor than Collier because of his ability to breakdown defenses while playing off-ball. WCJ is literally perfect for Hardy’s off-ball pin-down actions. If defenses don’t play that correctly, I think Walt can make them pay right away (on 40-42% 3-pt shooting).

Just something to consider—because, for example, Keynote could push into Collier’s minutes, and that wouldn’t necessarily have a huge impact on WCJ.
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Problem w/this is Collier is strong enough to defend a SG while the others are not, so Keyonte and WCJ can't really be on the floor at the same time, but either can play with Collier.
 
JazzFever said:
Problem w/this is Collier is strong enough to defend a SG while the others are not, so Keyonte and WCJ can't really be on the floor at the same time, but either can play with Collier.
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Having the physical traits to guard someone and actually being good on defense are 2 different things. I don't know if Collier is good on defense at all.
 
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