Clayton or Collier?
- Thread starter Saint Cy of JFC
- Start date
Kind of funny that some are doubting the guy who was beyond a doubt responsible more than anyone else for his team winning it all this season. Sweetness is a ****ing PLAYER!
- National Championship MVP:
Clayton was named the Most Outstanding Player of the Final Four, recognizing his overall impact on the Gators' championship run.
- West Region MVP:
He also received the MVP award for the West Region during the NCAA Tournament.
- SEC Tournament MVP:
Clayton was named the Most Valuable Player of the SEC Tournament, showcasing his consistent strong play throughout the conference tournament.
- First-Team All-SEC:
He was recognized as a First-Team All-SEC player, highlighting his exceptional performance within the conference.
- NCAA Tournament Performance:
Clayton had several standout performances in the tournament, including a career-high 34 points against Auburn in the Final Four and 30 points against Texas Tech in the Elite Eight, according to Gators Wire.
- Clutch Performances:
Clayton's ability to perform in crucial moments was a defining characteristic of his tournament run, notes Sports Illustrated.
Walter Clayton Jr. Named SEC Man of the Year, Joining Elite Group of Honorees
Walter Clayton Jr. continues to earn honors for his incredible 2025 season. The Southeastern Conference (SEC) and Florida Gators announced on Wednesday that Wal
hailfloridahail.com
I don't think either is ideal. It might boil down to a playstyle question.
Check out the dunks at 57 seconds and 1:32. And at 11:28. Oh my!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbt_gFWaXx0
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbt_gFWaXx0
I voted Collier, mainly because of how well he improved last season; also it's worth noting Collier spent one season in college while Clayton spent four - Collier is two years younger as well and so he should have more runway to improve.
Not hating on Clayton - I look forward to seeing how he progresses as well.
Not hating on Clayton - I look forward to seeing how he progresses as well.
My issue with Clayton Jr. is that his limited size and athleticism make it difficult for him to get where he wants to go on the floor without the use of multiple screens. (I guess we'll see if the Jazz can create enough spacing for him when he plays with the regular rotation guys.) Collier is better than WCJ at breaking the paint, pressuring the rim and creating off the dribble. So it becomes a question of what style of play Will Hardy wants to use. The problem with Collier is that he has little-to-no value when he's off the ball. Until Collier shoots well enough to be respected, he can't really be your starting point guard long term.
I think that in the bigger picture, the Jazz are probably planning to build a team that can run a lot of their offense from the wing, or they'll use multiple creators, while the guy they play at the 1 will spend considerable time playing off the ball. This is what the Celtics did recently when they played through Tatum and had Derrick White and Jrue Holiday spacing the floor. WCJ fits that blueprint. (Keyonte does as well...if he'll play defense.) WCJ is potentially a knock-down shooter with deep range, who can also use his high skill level as a secondary playmaker.
In the immediate term, I think the starting PG is Collier's to lose. I think he'll be the starter to open the season. If Collier can get his 3pt shooting up to 34% or so, then people will begin to look at him as starting-caliber.
I think that in the bigger picture, the Jazz are probably planning to build a team that can run a lot of their offense from the wing, or they'll use multiple creators, while the guy they play at the 1 will spend considerable time playing off the ball. This is what the Celtics did recently when they played through Tatum and had Derrick White and Jrue Holiday spacing the floor. WCJ fits that blueprint. (Keyonte does as well...if he'll play defense.) WCJ is potentially a knock-down shooter with deep range, who can also use his high skill level as a secondary playmaker.
In the immediate term, I think the starting PG is Collier's to lose. I think he'll be the starter to open the season. If Collier can get his 3pt shooting up to 34% or so, then people will begin to look at him as starting-caliber.
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Basketball Novice
Well-Known Member
Don't think Clayton Jr. is that small or that limited athletically. When guarding Liam McNeely on a few possessions, I thought his size was comparable. He isn't some undersized guard out there. Collier is decent off the dribble but he doesn't have a great variety of moves to go to; I need to rewatch some of Collier's rookie year stuff but he didn't have much of a midrange game at all.
I don't want to keep dogging on Collier because he has loads of potential and does have great stretches out there but there is more wrong with Collier's game than just not being a shooter.
Not sure what you mean by comparable, but McNeely measured nearly 5 inches taller at the Combine (6-2 vs 6-6 3/4).
Basketball Novice
Well-Known Member
Combine measurements are one thing but when WCJ was guarding Liam, he wasn't outsized. It might be that Liam is more skinny and was hunched over a little or maybe WCJ is a bit thicker but my eyes tell me there isn't that much of a difference. Maybe it was the camera angle or maybe It was just his hair, honestly not sure. I'll rewatch that game and give a closer look but that is my impression.
When both Clayton Jr. and McNeeley have their shoes on, one is just over 6'3" and the other is 6'8".
Basketball Novice
Well-Known Member
Listen, I'm not going to die on this hill. If your saying Liam is that much bigger that's fine. Just the impression I got watching the game, I could be wrong on that.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
lol, what? this entire thread is one big walter clayton love affair. i'm a huge fan, so i think that's great, but good grief this board f'n loves the dude.
i mean, look no further than the voting results.
You gotta read this thread a little better bro.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
ha. one of us does, but it isn't me.
Yeah well there are several people in this thread doubting he's good enough to be a starter in the NBA so I'm not sure what you're saying. I'm good with whatever people's opinions are though but he's going to prove them wrong... I think.
The whole world seems to have reached the point where everybody is overrating the importance of length in point-of-attack defense. Sometimes it seems like nothing else matters. It's crazy.
You can do a lot by moving your ****ing body and cutting off driving lanes. Sure, bigger players will get off their shots easier on you than a longer player, but you can do everything else to force them into lower-value shots or into a pass. Clayton is not athletically compromised when it comes to this other stuff. He might even be athletically gifted.
I don't remember where I read this, but there has been some interesting stuff written about how some fast-and-twitchy athletes are just not as good at harnessing their fast-and-twitchiness to their observations of the offensive player they're guarding as other players (even some who are much less fast-and-twitchy). In other words, they can't connect their reading of the offensive movements with a corresponding action.
I think there are some compelling reasons to believe this kind of thing. It's certainly a lot better than what I'm hearing from Internet Bros who talk about "having all teh tools but just not caring".
You can do a lot by moving your ****ing body and cutting off driving lanes. Sure, bigger players will get off their shots easier on you than a longer player, but you can do everything else to force them into lower-value shots or into a pass. Clayton is not athletically compromised when it comes to this other stuff. He might even be athletically gifted.
I don't remember where I read this, but there has been some interesting stuff written about how some fast-and-twitchy athletes are just not as good at harnessing their fast-and-twitchiness to their observations of the offensive player they're guarding as other players (even some who are much less fast-and-twitchy). In other words, they can't connect their reading of the offensive movements with a corresponding action.
I think there are some compelling reasons to believe this kind of thing. It's certainly a lot better than what I'm hearing from Internet Bros who talk about "having all teh tools but just not caring".