I hate rapists...

[Jazz Spazz]

He chose the right kind of target. Women in patriarchal religions face too much victim-blaming from their support systems when they are raped.

Is there any kind of thread you could resist dumping all over with your agenda?

When was the last time I commented in a BYU/Utah thread? If you like, I can turn those into discussion of public and private colleges.

Besides, at least you get to turn the argument into being about me, as opposed to addressing what I said. It's good practice.

Oh, you mean like how you turned the conversation from dislike of rapists to your dislike of "patriarchal religions"? So it's alright if you change the focus of a conversation, but if someone else does it is sarcastically referred to as "good practice"? I would hate to tag you with the word "hypocritical", but it seems to fit in this scenario.

 

[One Brow]

How many rapes does the typical non-patriarchal society rapist get away with before the police arrest him?

Good question. The better question is how many date rapes he can perform in a single year. This man's name was known to all of his victims, was it not? he met them in church functions or on-line dating services.

So, which are the non-patriarchal societies where a woman can feel free to accuse her date of rape without being judged?

 

[One Brow]

Oh, you mean like how you turned the conversation from dislike of rapists to your dislike of "patriarchal religions"?

Thank goodness discussing me is more important than discussing how patriarchal attitudes toward sex contribute to a culture where women feel uncomfortable reporting rapes. Otherwise, one might think the priorities ofthese responses are out of whack.

So it's alright if you change the focus of a conversation, but if someone else does it is sarcastically referred to as "good practice"?

I was discussing rape and the circumstances that made some victims better targets for a serial rapist. What did you think this thread was about, precisely? Besides me, of course, since all you have commented on is me.

I would hate to tag you with the word "hypocritical", but it seems to fit in this scenario.

Tagging me is a much easier option than looking at the contents of the posts, absolutely.

 

[leftyjace]

I hate them too. Unless they're hot females. Then they can force me to have heterosexual intercourse with them all they want.

 

[Bronco70]

One Brow - I surrender. I cannot spin and twist with the ease and experience you exhibit.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Thank goodness discussing me is more important than discussing how patriarchal attitudes toward sex contribute to a culture where women feel uncomfortable reporting rapes. Otherwise, one might think the priorities ofthese responses are out of whack.



I was discussing rape and the circumstances that made some victims better targets for a serial rapist. What did you think this thread was about, precisely? Besides me, of course, since all you have commented on is me.



Tagging me is a much easier option than looking at the contents of the posts, absolutely.

I had this nice cleverly organized response, but decided not to pull the trigger on it, it was too mean for me to actually hit the post button.
I'm walking way. Carry on with your agenda.

 

[Siro]

I always see people moaning about One Brow's personality or agenda or whatever. But I never see many refutations of his arguments. :/

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is simply not true. People tend to remember and focus on the bad. The world is as good as it's ever been, from any objective way you look at it. And good people/good deeds have always outnumbered and outweighed bad ones. In fact, almost all bad deeds stem from motivation outside of simply doing harm. Self interest encourages moral indifference, for example. But truly evil acts (neuropathy) are relatively rare and don't compare to the tens of millions of people who dedicate much of their lives and resources to help others.

I think his point was just that ****ed up **** happens and it has always happened, the internet just makes the information easier to see.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I always see people moaning about One Brow's personality or agenda or whatever. But I never see many refutations of his arguments. :/

Go back into the Archives. We have learned that there is no point. He was just getting started with that pretending to be innocent post. In some ways he reminds me of Salty, and we should know by now that Salty will never, ever, ever admit he was wrong on even a single point. I'm not really into playing that semantics game right now.

I didn't see any links, statistics, or journal entries to back anything up, so as of right now it is just an opinion.

I think Brow is going to be bothered with your post because it did not address the issue, it was just tagging people. Shame on you.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I hate them too. Unless they're hot females. Then they can force me to have heterosexual intercourse with them all they want.

What about when they take the cucumber out of the fridge?

 

[Siro]

Go back into the Archives. We have learned that there is no point. He was just getting started with that pretending to be innocent post. In some ways he reminds me of Salty, and we should know by now that Salty will never, ever, ever admit he was wrong on even a single point. I'm not really into playing that semantics game right now.

I didn't see any links, statistics, or journal entries to back anything up, so as of right now it is just an opinion.

I think Brow is going to be bothered with your post because it did not address the issue, it was just tagging people. Shame on you.

Okay... I don't really know much about the history of Jazzfanz members. But as far as this argument is concerned, I've always thought the sentiment One Brow expressed was a given. I come from a patriarchal society, and I've always considered it obvious that rape is under-reported in such cultures. This view may be incorrect, as I haven't actually seen any data to back it up, but it's not like you've never heard that before.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Okay... I don't really know much about the history of Jazzfanz members. But as far as this argument is concerned, I've always thought the sentiment One Brow expressed was a given. I come from a patriarchal society, and I've always considered it obvious that rape is under-reported in such cultures. This view may be incorrect, as I haven't actually seen any data to back it up, but it's not like you've never heard that before.

Anytime you speak negatively about any kind of religious thing, certain members will jump all over you or deem your opinion bad. There are some posters who do seem to bring it up way too much though. I think there is some truth what Onebrow is saying. This guy used his religious background to create a sense of trust that he used against the women. That could be done other ways, but religion is a pretty easy way to do it.

 

[colton]

I always see people moaning about One Brow's personality or agenda or whatever. But I never see many refutations of his arguments. :/

If he had an argument, perhaps a refutation would be appropriate. But here he has just posted crap with no real evidence.

 

[colton]

Okay... I don't really know much about the history of Jazzfanz members. But as far as this argument is concerned, I've always thought the sentiment One Brow expressed was a given. I come from a patriarchal society, and I've always considered it obvious that rape is under-reported in such cultures. This view may be incorrect, as I haven't actually seen any data to back it up, but it's not like you've never heard that before.

Let's be very clear: OneBrow was not talking about patriarchal societies in general. He was talking about the LDS society in specific. So if he has any stats to back up his opinion about LDS society I'd be glad to hear them. But I suspect he does not and that he was just talking crap, letting his anti-religious agenda get in the way of his reason.

 

[The Thriller]

I'm not so sure that religion comes into play so much as his money, power, and fame.

I have no doubt he used religion (obviously) to prey on women that were either,

A. Looking for someone special. He came across as meeting several expectations that many women, especially LDS, would have. He seemed to be confident, spiritual, well established, and intelligent (Like I said, not exactly limited to LDS women). He also talked about his mission, temple recommends, and BYU education. Though that may fool many, I'm not sure it would fool all. It has been my experience that most "spiritual" people don't need to go parading about announcing their accomplishments.

B. He was a well known figure in politics. He mingled with folks like Mike Lee, Chaffetz, and the governor. In one of his rapes he threatened to report a girl who was on an expired visa. Considering how well known he was in politics, I'm sure this threat burned this poor girl to the core and thus allowed him to take advantage of her. In fact, I'm guessing she's lived a sad tortured life since the rape. The memories of the rape must haunt her and the fear of him following through and getting her deported too.

He owned his own company. I think women would fear more, going to war against a big money making machine with political clout than going up against your average Joe Sixpack.

So while I'm not ready to completely dismiss that religion influenced how the women reported these incidents or how the investigation was handled, I do believe his money, fame, and power could and probably did.

Which is exactly why it's so sweet that he got caught. A complete narcissist who thought that he could use those opportunities/gifts/accomplishments he had to abuse women like toilet paper. I guess money can't buy you everything... But he sure can buy you one hell of a defense attorney.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm not so sure that religion comes into play so much as his money, power, and fame.

I have no doubt he used religion (obviously) to prey on women that were either,

A. Looking for someone special. He came across as meeting several expectations that many women, especially LDS, would have. He seemed to be confident, spiritual, well established, and intelligent (Like I said, not exactly limited to LDS women). He also talked about his mission, temple recommends, and BYU education. Though that may fool many, I'm not sure it would fool all. It has been my experience that most "spiritual" people don't need to go parading about announcing their accomplishments.

B. He was a well known figure in politics. He mingled with folks like Mike Lee, Chaffetz, and the governor. In one of his rapes he threatened to report a girl who was on an expired visa. Considering how well known he was in politics, I'm sure this threat burned this poor girl to the core and thus allowed him to take advantage of her. In fact, I'm guessing she's lived a sad tortured life since the rape. The memories of the rape must haunt her and the fear of him following through and getting her deported too.

He owned his own company. I think women would fear more, going to war against a big money making machine with political clout than going up against your average Joe Sixpack.

So while I'm not ready to completely dismiss that religion influenced how the women reported these incidents or how the investigation was handled, I do believe his money, fame, and power could and probably did.

Which is exactly why it's so sweet that he got caught. A complete narcissist who thought that he could use those opportunities/gifts/accomplishments he had to abuse women like toilet paper. I guess money can't buy you everything... But he sure can buy you one hell of a defense attorney.

So it basically seems like he used his religious background/beliefs to lure them in, and his political power to keep them quiet.

 

[Siro]

Let's be very clear: OneBrow was not talking about patriarchal societies in general. He was talking about the LDS society in specific. So if he has any stats to back up his opinion about LDS society I'd be glad to hear them. But I suspect he does not and that he was just talking crap, letting his anti-religious agenda get in the way of his reason.

This is the first result I found on Google. Didn't look at the others:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/515039389/90-of-Provo-rapes-not-reported-to-police.html

 

[The Thriller]

So it basically seems like he used his religious background/beliefs to lure them in, and his political power to keep them quiet.

I think so.

In Utah I'm thinking the dating pool is incredible to returned missionaries... Especially those who are/have been in the BYU crowd.

Now... I'm not so sure if it's THAT great once you past the Singles Ward age...

But I think it's obvious that he used church owned or affiliated websites and church activities/meetings to meet new women and to win their trust (at least scoring a date with them).

And I think it's plenty obvious that he used his political power and money to keep these women quiet. I especially feel for the one who he threatened to deport. That just seems... Even lower... To get his rape in...

When you look at his facebook page (LOL. It's still visible) you can see a lot of people talking about him. One in particular said that once they hung out and she thought he was really creepy. She bailed early on their date and went back home. While at home he showed up. Quickly, she locked the door. He knocked and knocked. Then, he tried to open the door, turning the door handle...

Creepy.

One of my friends was at some finance conference with him just a week ago. They met. She's only 24 (he's 39). he asked her out. Luckily she had a BF but she thought he was really forward and creepy. She told me about this incident this morning. There's not doubt in my mind he did those things.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is the first result I found on Google. Didn't look at the others:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/515039389/90-of-Provo-rapes-not-reported-to-police.html

So the score is:
One Brow: 1
Colton: 0

Lemmon said most Provo residents are religious and have a tendency to stigmatize discussion of sexual assault and sometimes to demonize the survivor.

 

[northeast]

He chose the right kind of target. Women in patriarchal religions face too much victim-blaming from their support systems when they are raped.

I wouldn't know from personal experience, but it does seem odd that this guy supposedly did these things with people who knew exactly who he was and got away with it for so long.