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Monetary Policy and the Constitution

babe

Well-Known Member
No "Constitution" or even legislated law is worth more that the people's determination to force society, and the "government" to actually abide by it's provisions.

We have millions of laws now, including fiat "legislation" from hundreds of federal agencies, state, county, and city governments as well, more than anybody can actually know about, abide by, or enforce. This reduces the operations of "law" to mere actions of caprice at the hands of virtually autonomous politicians and bureaucrats, with the citizen impoverished and impaired in every aspect of his abilities, left to fear that caprice.

The Fed is one idea our founders warned us against. If we put the power of money in the hands of the bankers, we would end up stripped of all our property and reduced to menial peasants sitting at the castle gates of the Banks, trying to win some faint smile or privilege from the Lord Bankers.

Franklin argues that we need monetary policy that can keep a level playing field for the general populace, and that we need fiat currency to grease the wheels of business and make our people productive.

While some of our more progressive thinkers also see monetary policy as a key to prospering economics, the question arises as to just who should issue that paper. . . . 'fiat' currency.

Our founders laid that responsibility, originally, upon Congress. That's why we generally understand, or think, it is our own "government" today who prints our paper currency. If that were true, our "inflation" in commodities, services, and real property values would only reflect a distribution of wealth from our "have" people to our "have not" people in some proportionate, that is to say "graduated" way. A sort of graduated property tax, if you please.

But that's not what we do. We let the Fed print and issue the money, and back it with federal reserve "notes" bearing interest. They in turn "lend" it to the banks at astonishingly low interest rates you or I would never be offered.

I say this system is doing exactly what our founders feared, that we should not tolerate it, and we should repeal the amendment and other legislation that "legalizes" this sort of theft from our public, which does everything Franklin deplores in making a few people very rich.

Lyndon LaRouche advocates a very active and powerful role for government as the bully whip for infrastructure, technology, and every other conceivable advance of mankind. . . . by issuing government "credit" to pay for all these "good" things.

I fear that would be like the takeover of our government that followed the Civil War, as we paid for railroads, then paid to ride on them and ship goods on them, and gave incredible incentives to the builders. It would be better if, when issuing "credit" in the public name, that citizens were issued stock certificates vesting ownership in the enterprises so financed. People could invest their own money too, but the money our government just "gives" to business should result in private, individual ownership vested in the citizens who must pay for those investments through future taxes.

At any rate, what we have done is to saddle future generations with massive debts practically beyond all hope of their ability to repay, and we have impoverished our general population while we have transferred massive wealth into the hands of a very small circle of "special people" who have virtually hijacked our government.
 
I like this post. Yes, some will call it overly ideological .. but for those that have the intestinal fortitude to demand change, do something about it, see it through, and take no for an answer .. it's only hard work, rather than an impossibility.
 
I fear that would be like the takeover of our government that followed the Civil War, as we paid for railroads, then paid to ride on them and ship goods on them, and gave incredible incentives to the builders. It would be better if, when issuing "credit" in the public name, that citizens were issued stock certificates vesting ownership in the enterprises so financed. People could invest their own money too, but the money our government just "gives" to business should result in private, individual ownership vested in the citizens who must pay for those investments through future taxes.

A) What do we use as currency under this system?
B) How does congress "regulate the Value thereof" without a central bank?
C) How do you control the wildcatters from expanding this script too quickly & then calling loans in?
C) How do we check congress from the obvious moral hazard of giving congress a blank checkbook?
E) Yeltsin tried a form of this stock idea with disastrous results. Not that it's identical, but...
 
A) What do we use as currency under this system?
B) How does congress "regulate the Value thereof" without a central bank?
C) How do you control the wildcatters from expanding this script too quickly & then calling loans in?
C) How do we check congress from the obvious moral hazard of giving congress a blank checkbook?
E) Yeltsin tried a form of this stock idea with disastrous results. Not that it's identical, but...

A) We use the dollar as well as coinage in gold and silver.
The difference is these dollars will be listed as gold and silver certificates, that can be redeemed at the bank for gold/silver. Just like it used to be done in the past.

B) The free market regulates the value of all commodities, and the price of gold and silver regulate the value of gold and silver certificates.

C) There's wildcatters in any industry or market, it's up to free individuals to educate themselves about these facts.

C) We check congress like we always have, by voting for our representatives to go to congress so our voice can be heard. (Yes I know this works so well today.)
But ideally, it's up to the people to not vote for corrupt politicians.

E) Most stocks are horrible now days because the Federal Reserve artificially inflates bubbles of derivatives that always burst and destroy economies.

Sidenote) Having a centralized bank regulate a countries economy is a cornerstone of the communist manifesto.
 
A) What do we use as currency under this system?
B) How does congress "regulate the Value thereof" without a central bank?
C) How do you control the wildcatters from expanding this script too quickly & then calling loans in?
C) How do we check congress from the obvious moral hazard of giving congress a blank checkbook?
E) Yeltsin tried a form of this stock idea with disastrous results. Not that it's identical, but...

The US Constitution vests Congress with the power to coin money, and regulate the value thereof. Did not say "print money and declare the value thereof". As a demonstration of what they were thinking, they produced coins of precious metal similar to the Spanish money of the day. They wanted "our" money to have recognizable intrinsic value, and to be useful in international trade.

Their idea of the source of revenue was the proceeds of tariffs on imports, not levy of taxes. We had forests, tobacco, cotton, and other valuable resources they considered "as good as money", and did not think we needed to print notes with funny numbers to get other people to pay us for our goods, and figured we could ask a good price for our valuable stuff that would enable us to buy what we needed.

They did not consider the US citizen a form of "national asset" or "federal revenue", except in exchange for something of value provided in an open competitive market by the government, as say the price of postage.

Lyndon LaRouche, and some other nations, are developing a new foreign exchange based on the Breton Woods agreement from almost seventy years ago. . . . the rates of exchange being regulated based upon commodity and other prices seen within various countries, leveling out the difference in values of stuff between countries. Didn't entirely displace market forces, just observed them and assigned to the regulators of exhange rates the power to fix those rates on a formula. It was another departure from having Congress regulate the value of our currency. . . . .

I'd say Congress must be the printer, or an agency regulated by Congress like a "National Bank" not owned by private bankers, but by our government. "The Mint", the "Treasury".

So before the government would print the money, they would contract for a project. Then print the money, and issue to the public stock which would either be issued equally to all citizens, or sold to folks who wanted to invest in the enterprise/project. It would be like a corporation floating a bond with interest payable to the government, or to individuals, but the "interest" paid for the money would be a stock dilution widely spread among taxpayers/citizens. If your government financed the project, or gave money for it, you would privately beome an owner, if a small shared one, in that enterprise. The printed cash would go to the company, the stock would go to you. It would be voting stock, by the way. There would be an increase in the amount of money, and maybe some advantage factor in the "velocity" term of your economic formulas. People would go to work. They would be paid. They would buy stuff. Business would be good.

We would build some high speed "bullet trains", some highways, some canals. . . . we would build the NAWAPA water project that would bring water from Alaska and the Canadian Northwest, which now drains into the Arctic Ocean, and we would build canals to the American high plains, the West and Southwest, and even to Mexico. A lot of land would go "green", and a lot of spiders, insects, mice, rabbits, owls, hawks, eagles, gophers, snakes, coyotes, deer, antelope and elk would have new niches to live in, and you would have tomatos for your salads and every other kind of good food. We could keep some river environments in better shape, and build some nice cities without "water cops" harassing you about your ideas of what to do for a yard, or how to water it. Life would be good.

There would be more demand for minerals, lumber, cement, decorative rock and virtually every other thing we can imagine of any value, and maybe some inflation, but there wouldn't be necessarily any opportunity for corrupt "insiders" to arrange things so they profited immensely simply by having the "right" connections in the halls of government.

There would be lots of ways a smart person could get rich by being productive, and maybe more intelligent people would spend their energies trying to do that, instead of playing the political games which focus on exploiting the corruptible politicians to good advantage. . . . . well, hopefully. . . . .

My concerns on the down side would be the possible exploitation of government by "insiders" who would line up to get their worthless projects approved. . . . . bridges to nowhere, miliitary equipment begging for new wars, cartelists of all kinds wanting government to spend money into their pockets.

So we would still have to insist that our representatives serve us instead of corporate lobbyists. . . .

So here's a new twist on the concept. Projects contracted must promise to repay the money from operating their project within ten to forty years of completion, depending on the nature of the project, and the reasonable projections of value of the project/revenues of the project. And pay some fixed rate of "sales tax" thereafter. Not exactly a free lunch, just a way to enable some projects to go forward in a way that spreads the benefits on both the public users and public owners. . . . .

needs more work. . . . needs some variation in the plan depending on the case. . . . but it is definitely something we could do as a society and make life better. . . .
 
You have a good heart & a great mind, babe. You & I have the same goals with this (as do most Americans I presume), even though we disagree with the consequences of our machinations. I'll give this a good response when I'm more able.
 
Question? Does anyone here think there is enough gold in existence to cover every U.S. dollar?
 
Question? Does anyone here think there is enough gold in existence to cover every U.S. dollar?

Easily. But I don't believe the U.S. any longer harbors any gold at Fort Knox, even though they may say they do.
I believe all the gold was hijacked by the big boys over at the Federal Reserve years ago.
 
Question? Does anyone here think there is enough gold in existence to cover every U.S. dollar?

I'm not a gold bug. I consider gold a "commodity". There are still incredible amounts of gold in the earth's crust, as yet unrecovered. Lots of mines sitting idle even now because the "high grade" has been depleted and the profit just isn't there to recover the rest at current prices. People who speculate in gold and extrapolate a direct response in the price of gold to the amount of fiat currency printed will find their projections just don't pan out.

But considering gold in some sort of exchange equilibrium with other commodities, like grains and oil, produces the market effect of much more value in our goods than in our currency, even though we print a lot of it. the prices of all commodities will help spread the effects of our fiat currency printing addiction. Meaning all these prices, including that of real estate, will rise. Meaning, unless we can just become more productive somehow, our standard of living will decline in proportion because we won't be able to buy as much "stuff".
 
Actually, there are plenty old mine shafts that the good old boys have left to rot in their old age. They were working them back in the 1990's, making a modest living on cheap gold prices. If I weren't so damn lazy & afraid of dark holes I would start digging into one of several up in the Uintas.

Do the math. We're talking an easy $30k a month in revenue with not a whole lot of setup expenses.
 
Actually, there are plenty old mine shafts that the good old boys have left to rot in their old age. They were working them back in the 1990's, making a modest living on cheap gold prices. If I weren't so damn lazy & afraid of dark holes I would start digging into one of several up in the Uintas.

Do the math. We're talking an easy $30k a month in revenue with not a whole lot of setup expenses.

and nobody has thought of this?
 
and nobody has thought of this?

Takes a lot of knowledge. The guy who used to run the gas station up at the flashing Kamas intersection owned a shaft up Soap Stone & worked it for decades. He shut the door & sold the shop about the same time. Good luck convincing his dust to show you the ropes.

In short, you're talking diggin an ounce per day at $1500 vs. what he was doing for about $300.

Speculation risk also.
 
Takes a lot of knowledge. The guy who used to run the gas station up at the flashing Kamas intersection owned a shaft up Soap Stone & worked it for decades. He shut the door & sold the shop about the same time. Good luck convincing his dust to show you the ropes.

In short, you're talking diggin an ounce per day at $1500 vs. what he was doing for about $300.

Speculation risk also.

I know a little about this stuff.. but know better than to re-open that can of worms on this site. Been there done that.
 
I am willing to do an awful lot of hard physical labor for $150k a year. Meet me in Hurricane next week and we'll discuss.
 
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