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See ya, Corbin.

GVC said:
As stated, dude's a TBD for me. He does seem to have a plan that he's trying to execute, which is nice. As a resident of Canada, you should be familiar, however, with how excited Raps fans were at BC's plan and first year success.
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*shudder*

It just seems to me that the average poster on this site holds the GM and players to a different standard than the coach.
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I think this is mostly an effect of the present circumstance. I mean it's hard to ask more from a fan-base that had one of the longest-tenured, and cherished coaches in all of professional sports to be followed up by a coach who lacks many of the romanticized Sloan-isms that many fans grew up with-- regardless of how their offenses are different. Whoever was hired as successor was bound to be in the cross-hairs, after being the successor to a Hall-of-Famer that was chased out by your franchise-player.

But I agree. People are way too hard on Corbin. Seeing stuff on Twitter and the Blogosphere attacking some of his mannerisms, or style, particularly irks me-- because it seems much more than a jokeful-jab.
 
b_line said:
If we had traded Al or Millsap for something last season, how do we make the GS trade?
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I know this comes as a shock, but AL AND PAUL WEREN'T THE ONLY EXPIRING CONTRACTS IN THE ENTIRE NBA LAST YEAR.

I still contend they could've been traded to a playoff team for one of their dead-weight expirings and a sweetener (late 1st, 2nd rounder, rookie contract player) and that they didn't pursue or pull off such a move because they wanted to see that current plan through before pursuing this one. Or something. I thought it was really dumb and put the players (contract year vets vs. young talent) and Corbin (having to manage that cluster****) in a bad spot.
 
GVC is spot on. Lindsey has done some nice things, but like Burks, and CJ, and Brewer, and the list goes on, while in a short period he looks good, what happens if Burke busts? And Gobert? What happens if the Jazz get #1, take Wiggins and he busts and Parker is a cross between Carmello and LeBron?

That is one of the many reasons if I am a good coach right now, I don't take the Jazz job. I wait until I see the draft pick and their FA plan and what happens with Hayward.
 
Another problem if you fire Ty is this:

You have to now pay Ty and the new coach. And no new coach is going to accept the "intern" title this early in the season. They will want the job. Which means another 2-3 year deal for that coach. Now, what happens if you get Parker and Coach K says that Jabari is such a special talent, that he wants to continue coaching him. Are you going to say no to Coach K? Or Phil Jackson? Long shots, I know, but it could happen. Now you have to fire the coach you just hired, and pay him, and pay the new guy.

I makes ZERO sense to fire Ty now. ZERO. There is not one good reason to do so. Ok, maybe one or two good reasons, but those aren't enough to combat the 50 bad reasons to fire Ty.
 
green said:
GVC is spot on. Lindsey has done some nice things, but like Burks, and CJ, and Brewer, and the list goes on, while in a short period he looks good, what happens if Burke busts? And Gobert? What happens if the Jazz get #1, take Wiggins and he busts and Parker is a cross between Carmello and LeBron?

That is one of the many reasons if I am a good coach right now, I don't take the Jazz job. I wait until I see the draft pick and their FA plan and what happens with Hayward.
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Yeah...making a real longterm hire right now would be difficult, unless you're going with a well-established NBA head coach. The only dude that comes to mind is George Karl.

Otherwise, if you can Ty now, you're looking at 70 games with an interim coach. Yikes.
 
mellow said:
I don't think the jazz care if Ty was 1-25 or 1-81, but the young guys all looked pretty bad last night, and that they do care about. For instance, Kanter is in his third year as a jazzman, and third year with Coach Corbin...and I'm not sure his game has changed any at all. That is what Corbin is going to be evaluated on.
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I agree with your general statement about Ty being judged by the improvement of the young players, but I believe Kanter is a poor example. His game has absolutely changed--I think you forgot how he played his first year. All he could do was rebound and on offense he looked completely lost. He is now quite a respectable scorer and shooter. I have no idea how you could assert that his game hasn't changed at all.
 
I do not think Ty gets fired. Not Utah's way and to be honest I am a fan of that.

Also granted that he gets undue amounts of flak but that is part of his position. Coaches always catch the heat for losing. What I want to see from Ty is him reaching the players and getting them to play their hearts out and develop. I am having trouble seeing that. part of that is the lack of talent, human nature and the youth of the players. But some of that is Ty.
 
PKM said:
Let me ask a question.

Would you (yes, you) blame Ty if he was offered a new 3yr contract at double the dollars to coach, say, the Bulls?

If you said yes, you're clueless.

If you said no, why is the reverse not acceptable for ownership?

This country has very recently taken on such an incredibly absurd welfare state persona.
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I was completely following and on board with your post until that steaming-hot non-sequitur came squirting out at the end.
 
mellow said:
I don't think the jazz care if Ty was 1-25 or 1-81, but the young guys all looked pretty bad last night, and that they do care about. For instance, Kanter is in his third year as a jazzman, and third year with Coach Corbin...and I'm not sure his game has changed any at all. That is what Corbin is going to be evaluated on.
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Working with all time greats has not vastly improved the game of many other players. Judging Corbin based on Kanter's progress is quite silly considering and comes across as a copout for Kanter's lack of performance.
 
dalamon said:
I think this is mostly an effect of the present circumstance. I mean it's hard to ask more from a fan-base that had one of the longest-tenured, and cherished coaches in all of professional sports to be followed up by a coach who lacks many of the romanticized Sloan-isms that many fans grew up with-- regardless of how their offenses are different. Whoever was hired as successor was bound to be in the cross-hairs, after being the successor to a Hall-of-Famer that was chased out by your franchise-player.

But I agree. People are way too hard on Corbin. Seeing stuff on Twitter and the Blogosphere attacking some of his mannerisms, or style, particularly irks me-- because it seems much more than a jokeful-jab.
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Sloan had more than his fair share of Jazz fan critics. You can search back through this site and see that all the Sloan critics were the very first to become Corbin critics. It's the way fans are -- know-it-all armchair coaches.
 
franklin said:
Sloan had more than his fair share of Jazz fan critics. You can search back through this site and see that all the Sloan critics were the very first to become Corbin critics. It's the way fans are -- know-it-all armchair coaches.
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I disagree with this. I guess InGameStrategy is a goner, but I definitely don't remember the people who hated Sloan, hating Tyrone Corbin right from the get-go.
 
GVC said:
Seriously. What happens when the new coach comes in and loses his first 15+ games? Coming into this season, we were going to need Kanter/Favors to do a decent job anchoring the defense and Kanter/Burks/Burke to provide solid offensive contributions beside Gordo to not be laughably bad. Favors has been overly focused on not fouling, Burke has been injured, and Kanter/Burks have no clue how to play team basketball on either end. This team has arguably the least amount of talent in the league.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Ty is the man for the job. I just think 1) people are deluding themselves if they think this team has the talent to be half decent, and 2) getting the timing right on a coaching change isn't so obvious.
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I said, "holy ****" because it's not like you to create a straw man argument with such a flair for hyperbole in suggesting hiring and firing a new coach every month, etc...
I guess it was more of a compliment to you than anything else. I knew what your intended message was and agreed, but the actual message was awful.
 
PKM said:
I said, "holy ****" because it's not like you to create a straw man argument with such a flair for hyperbole in suggesting hiring and firing a new coach every month, etc...
I guess it was more of a compliment to you than anything else. I knew what your intended message was and agreed, but the actual message was awful.
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Yeah. You know GVC is having a rough day when green is agreeing with him.
 
For those that are proclaiming Lindsey is the best GM in the league, or that he has proven that he is a top GM, what exactly has he done so far?

He traded up for Burke, and passed on MCW. Burke might be great, he might be a bust.
He did go get Gobert, which looks good on paper, but so far, Gobert is a long term project. He might be good, he might be a bust.
He did get the GS picks for their garbage, but what happens if GS blows up and the picks are late 20's? Then eh.
KOC set the roster up to tank for this year, Lindsey has gone through with that plan.

So, thus far, Lindsey is like every other player we have completely over-hyped when they were playing 10 mins a night. He have no IDEA what he will turn out like as a GM. So far, everything looks promising, but what happens if Burke is a bust, the draft pick next year is a bust, he gives Hayward a max and he become AK or he doesn't give Hayward money and he becomes Paul George? Lindsey hasn't really done much at all yet.

I'm still at a wait and see on 90% of the Jazz so far. Things are trending in the right direction, but that doesn't mean its a sure thing.
 
green said:
For those that are proclaiming Lindsey is the best GM in the league, or that he has proven that he is a top GM, what exactly has he done so far?

He traded up for Burke, and passed on MCW. Burke might be great, he might be a bust.
He did go get Gobert, which looks good on paper, but so far, Gobert is a long term project. He might be good, he might be a bust.
He did get the GS picks for their garbage, but what happens if GS blows up and the picks are late 20's? Then eh.
KOC set the roster up to tank for this year, Lindsey has gone through with that plan.

So, thus far, Lindsey is like every other player we have completely over-hyped when they were playing 10 mins a night. He have no IDEA what he will turn out like as a GM. So far, everything looks promising, but what happens if Burke is a bust, the draft pick next year is a bust, he gives Hayward a max and he become AK or he doesn't give Hayward money and he becomes Paul George? Lindsey hasn't really done much at all yet.

I'm still at a wait and see on 90% of the Jazz so far. Things are trending in the right direction, but that doesn't mean its a sure thing.
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Can you show me where that has been said? Saying he has had a great offseason and draft is far from saying he is a top GM or the best in the NBA.

Why argue something no one is saying?
 
NUMBERICA said:
Hornacek seems to be doing immensely more with immensely less, so I'm inclined to disagree. Maybe Hornacek is the next all-time great, which would just be, you know, ****ing great.
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Hornacek also has a very motivated, highly talented point guard to work with.
 
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