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Y'all suck!!!! And I don't mean like the good suck...

I mean like the you suck balls suck!!!!!

Burks rocked that game last night and if Ty wasn't holding him back he'd be 6th man of the year!!!!

Imagine what Burks would look like under Hory!?!?!??!?
 
Thee jazz fan said:
It's deffinetly about coaching, but it's also about accountability. Those players have gotten worse as the year has gone on. All they are doing is making the mistakes worse and compounding them. They have gotten the tast of starting. It's different from coming off the bench or in Burks case getting a secondary role on the bench to first off the bench playing important bench role. So far it hasn't worked, if the coach does nothing, all he's doing is running there careers into the ground.
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I don't think their recent performance has anything to do with a sense of entitlement due to prematurely becoming starters and therefore operating under delusions of grandeur. I think it has more to do with discouragement over so much losing, so they lose confidence in what they have been doing individually and what they have been taught to do as a team, and so they are desperate to turn this into something positive. Which means for many of these guys, who have been used to being the go-to player at different levels throughout their lives, trying to take over the game themselves.

No player of a sport at a competitive level (NBA, college, high school, even rec league) easily accepts a losing role. It doesn't sit well, and most players will try to compensate, to change things up, to get back on a winning track. If the coaching staff isn't giving them the guidance, training, coaching, and support to at least trust and buy into what they are trying to accomplish as a team, the team philosophy if you will, even if it isn't immediately being successful, then they will start to unravel. This is potentially what we are witnessing.

And random benchings for perceived crappy play to "teach them a lesson" actually does no such thing. Unless it is in a very specific framework of clear expectations then that type of benching is only more damaging to the player's confidence and detrimental to their development. The players will benefit more from consistent levels of playing time, or rather consistent parameters on which playing time is predicated, coupled with clear expectations and goals, a reward system for exhibiting the correct or desired behaviors, and rotation, substitution, and matchup decisions based on the overall team philosophy. This gives the players something firm to hold onto, a reason to keep working the system, and the unity necessary to get the most out of every individual player as well as the team.

By the way, best coach in the league for this? Popovich. This is exactly the way he coaches, and it shows. Even when they go through rough stretches he gets the same effort, the same loyalty, from his players, and in the end the success follows, both for the team and in the individual accomplishments and development of the players.
 
Check ur history bra!!!!
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Actually it seems to be you Zulu who needs to check his history. Those early teams of Durant and Westbrook never even approached the level of losing we are all experiencing currently. There is being a losing team and then there is being historically bad. Durant and Westbrook never lost like this.
 
@thee
You say that when the younguns make mistakes they should be benched so they dont learn bad habits, and that is the way to develop them.

Well that is exactly what has been done with favors, kanter, and burks for years now........ how dat work out?

Maybe Its time to try something new.

Just hand the younguns 30 plus minutes per game and see what happens.
Maybe it won't work, but so far your plan has not panned out either so might as well give it a try.

Dumbass
 
Also, giving the vets lots o minutes has not worked either.

So giving vets minutes (whether earned or not) has not worked.

Benching the youth when they screw up to teach them a lesson has not worked.

The only thing left to try is hand the team over to the youth and see what happens.

Worst case scenario they only win 2 of thier next 20 games and look like busts while doing it...... which is no worse than where we are right now
 
fishonjazz said:
@thee
You say that when the younguns make mistakes they should be benched so they dont learn bad habits, and that is the way to develop them.

Well that is exactly what has been done with favors, kanter, and burks for years now........ how dat work out?

Maybe Its time to try something new.

Just hand the younguns 30 plus minutes per game and see what happens.
Maybe it won't work, but so far your plan has not panned out either so might as well give it a try.

Dumbass
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So...how many minutes are Kanter, Hayward and Favors averaging right now?
 
Grandpa Jazz said:
Actually it seems to be you Zulu who needs to check his history. Those early teams of Durant and Westbrook never even approached the level of losing we are all experiencing currently. There is being a losing team and then there is being historically bad. Durant and Westbrook never lost like this.
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Dude... In 2008-09 season OKC started 3-29!!!!


Sorry gramps!!!
 
Zulu said:
Dude... In 2008-09 season OKC started 3-29!!!!


Sorry gramps!!!
Click to expand...

But they also had Durant and Westbrook. The Jazz don't have a freakishly lengthy seven footer with better skills than most NBA guards, nor do they have arguably the most athletic dude in the NBA.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I don't think their recent performance has anything to do with a sense of entitlement due to prematurely becoming starters and therefore operating under delusions of grandeur. I think it has more to do with discouragement over so much losing, so they lose confidence in what they have been doing individually and what they have been taught to do as a team, and so they are desperate to turn this into something positive. Which means for many of these guys, who have been used to being the go-to player at different levels throughout their lives, trying to take over the game themselves.

No player of a sport at a competitive level (NBA, college, high school, even rec league) easily accepts a losing role. It doesn't sit well, and most players will try to compensate, to change things up, to get back on a winning track. If the coaching staff isn't giving them the guidance, training, coaching, and support to at least trust and buy into what they are trying to accomplish as a team, the team philosophy if you will, even if it isn't immediately being successful, then they will start to unravel. This is potentially what we are witnessing.

And random benchings for perceived crappy play to "teach them a lesson" actually does no such thing. Unless it is in a very specific framework of clear expectations then that type of benching is only more damaging to the player's confidence and detrimental to their development. The players will benefit more from consistent levels of playing time, or rather consistent parameters on which playing time is predicated, coupled with clear expectations and goals, a reward system for exhibiting the correct or desired behaviors, and rotation, substitution, and matchup decisions based on the overall team philosophy. This gives the players something firm to hold onto, a reason to keep working the system, and the unity necessary to get the most out of every individual player as well as the team.

By the way, best coach in the league for this? Popovich. This is exactly the way he coaches, and it shows. Even when they go through rough stretches he gets the same effort, the same loyalty, from his players, and in the end the success follows, both for the team and in the individual accomplishments and development of the players.
Click to expand...

Agree on the entitlement point but I couldn't disagree more on the notion that young players are giving up on the system and trying to do too much on their own. They are playing the system but failing at it miserably. There's a big difference in Popovich's luxury of having competent players buying into a system and the Jazz's situation of having players who cannot give up on a system because they can't play in it to begin with. The Jazz executed pretty well last night in the first and third quarters with starters in. There achilles heel is any team who can run on them off missed shots -- it get's ugly quick and that's exactly what happened last night.



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Some more on coaching: Tyrone did a pretty good job taking stuff away from Dragic early on last night. Their offense took a lot longer to get shots than they're used to. The Jazz also defended against the three much better than others have. Suns shot just .32% on 25 attempts vs. an average of .363% on 29 attempts. They also limited them to 75 attempts vs an average of 81.5.
 
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