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LazyD said:
But they also had Durant and Westbrook. The Jazz don't have a freakishly lengthy seven footer with better skills than most NBA guards, nor do they have arguably the most athletic dude in the NBA.
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The argument is that those two guys also struggled given big minutes!!
 
Darkwing Duck said:
So...how many minutes are Kanter, Hayward and Favors averaging right now?
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Good point.

Now if we could get burks, and burke over 30 per and bring evans and goberts minutes up then we would be tanking in style.

Of course since we are getting healthy now (which skewed the minutes so far) I predict that burks, kanter, gobert, and favors minutes will all go down
 
franklin said:
Agree on the entitlement point but I couldn't disagree more on the notion that young players are giving up on the system and trying to do too much on their own. They are playing the system but failing at it miserably. There's a big difference in Popovich's luxury of having competent players buying into a system and the Jazz's situation of having players who cannot give up on a system because they can't play in it to begin with. The Jazz executed pretty well last night in the first and third quarters with starters in. There achilles heel is any team who can run on them off missed shots -- it get's ugly quick and that's exactly what happened last night.



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Some more on coaching: Tyrone did a pretty good job taking stuff away from Dragic early on last night. Their offense took a lot longer to get shots than they're used to. The Jazz also defended against the three much better than others have. Suns shot just .32% on 25 attempts vs. an average of .363% on 29 attempts. They also limited them to 75 attempts vs an average of 81.5.
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Ya its probably just coincidence that corbins young players look like they have no talent.
 
franklin said:
Agree on the entitlement point but I couldn't disagree more on the notion that young players are giving up on the system and trying to do too much on their own. They are playing the system but failing at it miserably. There's a big difference in Popovich's luxury of having competent players buying into a system and the Jazz's situation of having players who cannot give up on a system because they can't play in it to begin with. The Jazz executed pretty well last night in the first and third quarters with starters in. There achilles heel is any team who can run on them off missed shots -- it get's ugly quick and that's exactly what happened last night.



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Some more on coaching: Tyrone did a pretty good job taking stuff away from Dragic early on last night. Their offense took a lot longer to get shots than they're used to. The Jazz also defended against the three much better than others have. Suns shot just .32% on 25 attempts vs. an average of .363% on 29 attempts. They also limited them to 75 attempts vs an average of 81.5.
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So how long do you try to pound a square peg into a round hole? Shouldn't the coach be capable of adapting his system to help the players perform better, or get them to buy into it or teach it to them in a way they can see some success at it? Even Sloan, as rigid as he was, adapted his system the year we had Arroyo and the other also-ran's and still pulled out a .500 season.
 
franklin said:
Corbin had a very clear game plan against Chicago that was different than all the other games. He extended Boozer and stuck Noah in corners, while attacking boozer with Hayward-Marvin-Evans. They also switched sides to run Jefferson instead of Hayward to give new looks and confuse/go away from Chicago's strong defenders. Marvin hit the corner instead of the point guard to extend their D. This got the Jazz a ton of easy baskets or looks against one of the best defenses. Hayward missed a lot of gimme's and executed poorly or the Jazz would have put up 100 points.

Corbin had a much different attack against the quicker Suns the first time this year. If it weren't for 20 turn overs then it would have worked. He stopped Dragic and Bledsoe quite well that game.
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Number one, he played the vets to win ... I thought we were trying to develop the young guys

Number two, did they win?

Number three, so he was dumb enough to do something that he shouldn't be doing and he still failed.

Number four, you seem to have more insight about what Corbin is trying to do than most of us, which leads me to believe you have sort of association or inside connection to Corbin. It's the only thing that can explain your irrational defense of him. Well, you better tell him that most knowledgeable basketball observers think that he's a dumbass head coach and should go back to being an assistant where he can work with players on their individual skills.
 
LogGrad98 said:
So how long do you try to pound a square peg into a round hole? Shouldn't the coach be capable of adapting his system to help the players perform better, or get them to buy into it or teach it to them in a way they can see some success at it? Even Sloan, as rigid as he was, adapted his system the year we had Arroyo and the other also-ran's and still pulled out a .500 season.
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Trying to adapt around NBA players with zero advantages is pounding a square peg into a round hole. Wanting Corbin to mold something special out of a team specifically built to fail is quite an unrealistic expectation IMO. In the NBA, you have to have advantages that you can exploit to create mismatched or double teams. How specifically do you want Corbin to create that with Kanter? Favors? Marvin? Hayward (2nd best option)? Trey (best option)?



Besides, Corbin has changed up plays to utilize what little he has to work with. It's a pretty damn hard thing to do when you're playing four on five. Now that Trey is back they will and have had many more options. He looked damn good last night to me.
 
Grandpa Jazz said:
Sorry Zulu!!! That team finished with well over 20 wins. Do you think this Jazz team will fair as well for the season? I see no reason to believe they can.
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So the jazz going 2-15 so far and OKC going 3-24, but Westbrook and Durant were never this bad come on gramps!!!!

And yes I believe the jazz will get 23 wins!!!
 
This is what I predicted gramps... Which just happens to be the exact wins that Durant and Westbrook team had starting 3-29....


Zulu said:
23....

And I will be as ecstatic as though each of those wins are playoff wins!!!
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begi said:
From PHX game
23m RJ why, 16m JL IIIWOW, 4m AB really, 27m MW ok
Our young guys
18m enes 25m trey 24m Alec
25m favors
Can someone please tell me what a hell is going on
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John Pukeass the Turd came in to end the 1Q, then stayed in more than half of the 2nd Q, and guess when our production completely fell off? Look at our 2Q production. 18 points to their 31. On one play I don't recall who it was, but JLIII was guarding a big, and Favors or Kanter came over to switch, JLIII waved him off, then proceeded to get backed all the way down in the paint in order to allow an extremely easy layup by the big. I couldn't believe my eyes.
 
franklin said:
Trying to adapt around NBA players with zero advantages is pounding a square peg into a round hole. Wanting Corbin to mold something special out of a team specifically built to fail is quite an unrealistic expectation IMO. In the NBA, you have to have advantages that you can exploit to create mismatched or double teams. How specifically do you want Corbin to create that with Kanter? Favors? Marvin? Hayward (2nd best option)? Trey (best option)?



Besides, Corbin has changed up plays to utilize what little he has to work with. It's a pretty damn hard thing to do when you're playing four on five. Now that Trey is back they will and have had many more options. He looked damn good last night to me.
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I don't expect him to mold something special, but I do expect him to set his players up for success the best they can be within their limitations, and maybe even inspire them just a little. Corbin's task this season is to guide us through a rough year to a great draft pick, but the most important aspect of this is being a strong enough leader and mentor to not lose the other young players along the way, to keep them engaged as much as possible, and get the younger guys time to learn the game, get familiar with the systems, and learn to trust each other and play as a team, to "gel" if you will as much as they can, even as crappy as they may be. I haven't seen it yet, but I do still hope to. What I have seen so far is a team that doesn't seem engaged, doesn't seem even modestly inspired, doesn't seem to listen to him, and doesn't seem to trust each other. I know it takes time, which is why I am not among those crying for Corbin's head immediately on a platter. But we need to see some forward progression, whether we start winning or not.
 
franklin said:
Does this guy not realize Garrett was a D-League call up? This is the same guy who was crying when Sloan played Ronnie Price and Maynor over Sundiata Gaines.
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Your point? Garrett has outplayed Lucas by a mile. Where they came from is irrelevant.
 
franklin said:
Does this guy not realize Garrett was a D-League call up? This is the same guy who was crying when Sloan played Ronnie Price and Maynor over Sundiata Gaines.
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Sloan often seemed to operate by the motto "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't". And there is definitely something to be said about working with a known entity especially when dealing with the more inconsequential things, such as who is the 3rd string point guard. Unlikely we will find the next Stockton sitting on our bench buried behind a high draft pick, point forward, and a limited minutes backup PG.



The Jazz organizations seems to adhere to this fairly often as well.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Don't know about the others but Trey had foul truble. Two fouls in the first 5 minutes of the game, and had to sit the rest of the first quarter. If not for foul trouble Burke ends up playing over 30 minutes.

Favors had some good offense, but he really played like **** on defense. I'd like to see him get benched a game or two to send a message. 4 rebounds no blocks, and little to no help defense = him quitting. He was extremely lazy last night on defense, and that's suppose to be his strength.

Kanter just came back from a sprained ankle.

Why the hell does Burks deserve minutes, plus 24 minutes for a bench player is good.

You can't just play these guys thirty+ minutes a game when playing like **** or they will develop losing habbits and not progress messages and lessons by restricting minutes must happen. Discipline is the best way to get guys to wake up and play the right way. Do you honestly think these guys have earned the right to be playing that many minutes, playing as ****y as they are?
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playing for a loser called corbin also develops losing habbits.

playing for a winner called hornaceck seems to be developing winning habbits


YOU GOT OWNED!
 
fishonjazz said:
Ya lucas has earned his minutes damn it! So has jefferson and rush.

Why is it that favors, kanter, and burks minutes should be taken away for poor play but not jefferson or lucas?
What has gobert done to deserve zero minutes.

The way I see it is that pretty much the whole team sucks so I think the young guys that will be around next year SHOULD just be given the minutes.

To me the only ones who have "earned" minutes are evans, marvin, and gobert.
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ceepee 3
lebron
wade
rose
Duncan
Parker
durant
westbrook
curry


all watched from the bench the first years.

ooh wait they did not
 
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