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Thee jazz fan said:
Kobe didn't play behind an Allstar as far as I remember. And he played 10 maybe twelve minutes a game his first year.

As for D-Will. I never said he was happy about his benching, but in an interview he recognized it helped him, but also said he'd never forgive Sloan for the benching.

I know Stock was playing behind a good player, but didn't he himself just say that Burke's injury was a blessing in disguise, because he got a chance to sit and watch, he even says sitting and watching helped him. Jermaine O'neal was discarded after basically sitting for 4 or 5 years befor getting a chance in Indian.
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kobe played 15.5mpg his first year
second 26
from there on 36+ minutes
 
DutchJazzer said:
ceepee 3
lebron
wade
rose
Duncan
Parker
durant
westbrook
curry


all watched from the bench the first years.

ooh wait they did not
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D Will sat some his first year and look how fantastic he is. Obviously sitting works every single time, and it has nothing to do with the player or what an individual may need, it is about following a rigid system applied to everyone regardless of their personal needs or the team needs.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I don't expect him to mold something special, but I do expect him to set his players up for success the best they can be within their limitations, and maybe even inspire them just a little. Corbin's task this season is to guide us through a rough year to a great draft pick, but the most important aspect of this is being a strong enough leader and mentor to not lose the other young players along the way, to keep them engaged as much as possible, and get the younger guys time to learn the game, get familiar with the systems, and learn to trust each other and play as a team, to "gel" if you will as much as they can, even as crappy as they may be. I haven't seen it yet, but I do still hope to. What I have seen so far is a team that doesn't seem engaged, doesn't seem even modestly inspired, doesn't seem to listen to him, and doesn't seem to trust each other. I know it takes time, which is why I am not among those crying for Corbin's head immediately on a platter. But we need to see some forward progression, whether we start winning or not.
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We all expect that. Again, how specifically do you expect him to do it? He obviously motivated them last night to jump passing lanes and play within his motion drive and dish offense (an offense that makes me nervous with an undertalented squad as it requires players to get into trouble spots in order to succeed). That was a hella refreshing change of pace.

Corbin has tried just about everything on the offensive end to put them into a position to succeed. Is it more about his motivating deficiencies?
 
franklin said:
We all expect that. Again, how specifically do you expect him to do it? He obviously motivated them last night to jump passing lanes and play within his motion drive and dish offense (an offense that makes me nervous with an undertalented squad as it requires players to get into trouble spots in order to succeed). That was a hella refreshing change of pace.

Corbin has tried just about everything on the offensive end to put them into a position to succeed. Is it more about his motivating deficiencies?
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Its more about his player preference system that I take issue with.

It seems like sometimes he ends up making the correct lineup changes but it always takes him longer to figure it out than it does casual fans.

Gets very frustrating.

He has done somewhat better this year (mostly due to lack of options) but it sucks when every fan is saying stop playing lucas if you want to win and it takes him way longer to figure it out than us.

I mean I want the tank to succeed so I really don't care if he plays lucas but I think (not entirely sure tbph) that corbin is trying to win so why keep playing lucas for so long?
Along with all the other rotation choices he makes that we have all made a million threads about.

Sometimes he gets it right but most of the time not so much.

He has never tried a starting lineup of without jefferson in it.
Now he has mixed up the starting line up some, which he is open to doing as ling as it means a young guys loses that starting spot.

I would love to see one game with burks starting at the 2..... or jeremy at the 3 or 4.

But it will not happen because his 2 favorite vets are both healthy and starting already so there is no way they willl lose thier starting jobs.

I even admit that maybe jefferson and marvin are the best options to start but when your record is as bad as it is, and corbin really is trying to win, then it seems like he would try some starting lineups without jefferson in it
 
This is a development and evaluation year. I want Ty Corbin to try to win games, but to do it inside a system that develops and evaluates talent for a rebuilding process. IMO, he has no idea how to do this.

You can play vets to highlight them for potential mid season trades, but not to the detriment of the young players losing all of their playing time. "Core5" should all play regardless of how well they're doing. At least for one stretch every game, they should have Kanter, Favors, Hayward, Burks and Burke all on the floor together. Evans, Gobert and Garrett should never be DNP unless they're injured. Clark needs to get some playing time to see if it's worth picking up his contract next year.

Develop and evaluate. That should be the key. If they happen to win games while you do this, so be it. But they should not be featuring any of Marvin, Jefferson, Lucas, Rush or Biedrins unless they plan to trade them. Otherwise, you're continuing to stunt the young guys development and make it harder for the front office to figure out who to build around.
 
And yes I believe the jazz will get 23 wins!!!
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So, you are not really truly committed to this tank business? Believe i would be quite happy if they can pull together 23 wins, and i agree it's possible. My guess is around 15 but i have been accused of being overly optimistic where the Jazz are concerned. When i wrote that last post they still had two wins. I kept waiting for the collapse to come throughout the Suns game, and was surprised they held together. Pavlov's dog you know!
 
Ellis269 said:
This is a development and evaluation year. I want Ty Corbin to try to win games, but to do it inside a system that develops and evaluates talent for a rebuilding process. IMO, he has no idea how to do this.

You can play vets to highlight them for potential mid season trades, but not to the detriment of the young players losing all of their playing time. "Core5" should all play regardless of how well they're doing. At least for one stretch every game, they should have Kanter, Favors, Hayward, Burks and Burke all on the floor together. Evans, Gobert and Garrett should never be DNP unless they're injured. Clark needs to get some playing time to see if it's worth picking up his contract next year.

Develop and evaluate. That should be the key. If they happen to win games while you do this, so be it. But they should not be featuring any of Marvin, Jefferson, Lucas, Rush or Biedrins unless they plan to trade them. Otherwise, you're continuing to stunt the young guys development and make it harder for the front office to figure out who to build around.
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Agree completely. I don't think that Ty knows the plan or if he has one, that he can stick to it. he just seems to throw things out there and hope they work.
 
fishonjazz said:
Its more about his player preference system that I take issue with.

It seems like sometimes he ends up making the correct lineup changes but it always takes him longer to figure it out than it does casual fans.

Gets very frustrating.

He has done somewhat better this year (mostly due to lack of options) but it sucks when every fan is saying stop playing lucas if you want to win and it takes him way longer to figure it out than us.

I mean I want the tank to succeed so I really don't care if he plays lucas but I think (not entirely sure tbph) that corbin is trying to win so why keep playing lucas for so long?
Along with all the other rotation choices he makes that we have all made a million threads about.

Sometimes he gets it right but most of the time not so much.

He has never tried a starting lineup of without jefferson in it.
Now he has mixed up the starting line up some, which he is open to doing as ling as it means a young guys loses that starting spot.

I would love to see one game with burks starting at the 2..... or jeremy at the 3 or 4.

But it will not happen because his 2 favorite vets are both healthy and starting already so there is no way they willl lose thier starting jobs.

I even admit that maybe jefferson and marvin are the best options to start but when your record is as bad as it is, and corbin really is trying to win, then it seems like he would try some starting lineups without jefferson in it
Click to expand...

You may recall what I wrote about Evans @ 3 needing a point guard who can break down the defense so they can hide his dribbling weaknesses and turn to his strengths. Evans has played 6 games this season, averaging 20 per. He started playing the same game Trey Burke came back. Kanter's injury had some to do with it initially, but now it's a wise choice by Corbin and something I thought fans would appreciate. Evans role the last three games has gotten much bigger too.

I also don't see the big deal with playing Lucas in the past. I doubt we see as much of him as a backup now that Garrett is up to speed and Trey back. Garrett isn't much of a long minute floor general so Lucas should get the primary nod over him when it comes to starting. Garrett is my guy off the bench, and will be Corbin's too.


BTW, I was thinking tonight might be a good time to start Burks on Harden but I doubt it will happen. Burks can attack Harden's inconsistent-lazy defense and hopefully get him into foul trouble.
 
franklin said:
We all expect that. Again, how specifically do you expect him to do it? He obviously motivated them last night to jump passing lanes and play within his motion drive and dish offense (an offense that makes me nervous with an undertalented squad as it requires players to get into trouble spots in order to succeed). That was a hella refreshing change of pace.

Corbin has tried just about everything on the offensive end to put them into a position to succeed. Is it more about his motivating deficiencies?
Click to expand...

I don't think everyone does expect just that. I think there are those that legitimately think anything short of multiple players in the all-star game and a trip to the playoffs mean abject failure for Ty. I think Ty has his shortcomings, but I am not on the Crucify Ty bandwagon. I think he is simply not that smart, or rather that he doesn't have the coaching acumen to do everything he needs to as a coach. The BBCIQ, if you will. I think he is probably a decent X's and O's kind of coach, but he gets bogged down when he has to juggle too much information, and then starts to make bad decisions. I think because of this he doesn't have the full buy-in and trust of his team, which creates other complications. He might be able to get there anyway, but I just don't see it happening. So what we are going to see is periods of a coherent game-plan, and the proper execution thereof, along with decent in-game decisions, that might occasionally encompass an entire game, all interspersed with even more frequent periods of chaotic play and head-scratchers that make us wonder why he is an NBA head coach.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I don't think everyone does expect just that. I think there are those that legitimately think anything short of multiple players in the all-star game and a trip to the playoffs mean abject failure for Ty. I think Ty has his shortcomings, but I am not on the Crucify Ty bandwagon. I think he is simply not that smart, or rather that he doesn't have the coaching acumen to do everything he needs to as a coach. The BBCIQ, if you will. I think he is probably a decent X's and O's kind of coach, but he gets bogged down when he has to juggle too much information, and then starts to make bad decisions. I think because of this he doesn't have the full buy-in and trust of his team, which creates other complications. He might be able to get there anyway, but I just don't see it happening. So what we are going to see is periods of a coherent game-plan, and the proper execution thereof, along with decent in-game decisions, that might occasionally encompass an entire game, all interspersed with even more frequent periods of chaotic play and head-scratchers that make us wonder why he is an NBA head coach.
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To elaborate, I think this is what made him a very solid assistant coach. I think if you can give him reasonable chunks of responsibility, that are not all-encompassing, he is capable of excellent decisions, maybe occasionally bordering on brilliance. As he works with the offense, or coaches players one-on-one he is likely very solidly knowledgeable. But not everyone with a high level of knowledge of a subject are capable of passing that knowledge along to others while trying to manage the big picture. Management is different from doing the task, and not always for everyone.

I know plenty of lead workers, for example, who are fantastic operators and can get small parts of the work floor operating at very high efficiency, who are very highly regarded by management and who you know will take on any task given them and excel. They are always talked about as possible promotional candidates. But if they have to step in for the supervisor temporarily it seems like they have taken stupid pills and can't tell their own ******* from a hole in the ground, and suddenly **** is falling apart. Some of them have the capacity to develop beyond that, but some of them just don't. They will always excel in their role as a lead, but will never really make that step up. This makes me think of Ty in some ways.
 
LogGrad98 said:
D Will sat some his first year and look how fantastic he is. Obviously sitting works every single time, and it has nothing to do with the player or what an individual may need, it is about following a rigid system applied to everyone regardless of their personal needs or the team needs.
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dwill sucks. he was picked above cp3 so he should be better.
 
franklin said:
You may recall what I wrote about Evans @ 3 needing a point guard who can break down the defense so they can hide his dribbling weaknesses and turn to his strengths. Evans has played 6 games this season, averaging 20 per. He started playing the same game Trey Burke came back. Kanter's injury had some to do with it initially, but now it's a wise choice by Corbin and something I thought fans would appreciate. Evans role the last three games has gotten much bigger too.

I also don't see the big deal with playing Lucas in the past. I doubt we see as much of him as a backup now that Garrett is up to speed and Trey back. Garrett isn't much of a long minute floor general so Lucas should get the primary nod over him when it comes to starting. Garrett is my guy off the bench, and will be Corbin's too.


BTW, I was thinking tonight might be a good time to start Burks on Harden but I doubt it will happen. Burks can attack Harden's inconsistent-lazy defense and hopefully get him into foul trouble.
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Honestly my heart just ain't into bitchin about ty this year.

MOST of the youth are getting good minutes and jeffy and marv are playing thier roles well
 
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