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How slow do you have to be to think players develop offensively without any offensive structure to develop within?

So, you think that justifies a DNP for Gobert and minutes for Beans? Of course, you're so slow to see the deficiencies of Corbin that most of us saw from the start that here it is three years later and you're still defending him.
 
From PHX game
23m RJ why, 16m JL IIIWOW, 4m AB really, 27m MW ok
Our young guys
18m enes 25m trey 24m Alec
25m favors
Can someone please tell me what a hell is going on

What is going on is confusion. Ty does not know what he is doing, he has no plan that he can execute. He just throws guys out there and hopes. The vets look better to him because their experience helps them to overcome his confusion.

Remember when Ty took over and he had no clue who to get as assistant coaches and it took him forever to fill out his assistants? That tells you something right there. He did not know who he wanted nor who he could get. He is in over his head.
 
We all know the young guys are going to make mistakes so corbin should just be proactive and never play any of them ever again. Problem solved.
 
What is going on is confusion. Ty does not know what he is doing, he has no plan that he can execute. He just throws guys out there and hopes. The vets look better to him because their experience helps them to overcome his confusion.

Remember when Ty took over and he had no clue who to get as assistant coaches and it took him forever to fill out his assistants? That tells you something right there. He did not know who he wanted nor who he could get. He is in over his head.

Corbin had a very clear game plan against Chicago that was different than all the other games. He extended Boozer and stuck Noah in corners, while attacking boozer with Hayward-Marvin-Evans. They also switched sides to run Jefferson instead of Hayward to give new looks and confuse/go away from Chicago's strong defenders. Marvin hit the corner instead of the point guard to extend their D. This got the Jazz a ton of easy baskets or looks against one of the best defenses. Hayward missed a lot of gimme's and executed poorly or the Jazz would have put up 100 points.

Corbin had a much different attack against the quicker Suns the first time this year. If it weren't for 20 turn overs then it would have worked. He stopped Dragic and Bledsoe quite well that game.
 
I think Ty is overwhelmed with the job. He is a good guy from all accounts but he is more suited as an assistant. However, I think most coaches would struggle with this team. Jazz are a bad shooting team and an average defensive team.
 
All of this.

This forum is like the parents of ****ty players who missed the junior high bball team because they sucked balls. It was coaches fault, he couldn't see their talent yo. Never the child's fault, excuses excuses.


Alec Burks sucks ***. I don't want to see him play another minute, and if it weren't for the tank he wouldn't.

This is ur first warning frank!!!
 
Y'all suck!!!! And I don't mean like the good suck...

I mean like the you suck balls suck!!!!!

Burks rocked that game last night and if Ty wasn't holding him back he'd be 6th man of the year!!!!

Imagine what Burks would look like under Hory!?!?!??!?
 
It's deffinetly about coaching, but it's also about accountability. Those players have gotten worse as the year has gone on. All they are doing is making the mistakes worse and compounding them. They have gotten the tast of starting. It's different from coming off the bench or in Burks case getting a secondary role on the bench to first off the bench playing important bench role. So far it hasn't worked, if the coach does nothing, all he's doing is running there careers into the ground.

I don't think their recent performance has anything to do with a sense of entitlement due to prematurely becoming starters and therefore operating under delusions of grandeur. I think it has more to do with discouragement over so much losing, so they lose confidence in what they have been doing individually and what they have been taught to do as a team, and so they are desperate to turn this into something positive. Which means for many of these guys, who have been used to being the go-to player at different levels throughout their lives, trying to take over the game themselves.

No player of a sport at a competitive level (NBA, college, high school, even rec league) easily accepts a losing role. It doesn't sit well, and most players will try to compensate, to change things up, to get back on a winning track. If the coaching staff isn't giving them the guidance, training, coaching, and support to at least trust and buy into what they are trying to accomplish as a team, the team philosophy if you will, even if it isn't immediately being successful, then they will start to unravel. This is potentially what we are witnessing.

And random benchings for perceived crappy play to "teach them a lesson" actually does no such thing. Unless it is in a very specific framework of clear expectations then that type of benching is only more damaging to the player's confidence and detrimental to their development. The players will benefit more from consistent levels of playing time, or rather consistent parameters on which playing time is predicated, coupled with clear expectations and goals, a reward system for exhibiting the correct or desired behaviors, and rotation, substitution, and matchup decisions based on the overall team philosophy. This gives the players something firm to hold onto, a reason to keep working the system, and the unity necessary to get the most out of every individual player as well as the team.

By the way, best coach in the league for this? Popovich. This is exactly the way he coaches, and it shows. Even when they go through rough stretches he gets the same effort, the same loyalty, from his players, and in the end the success follows, both for the team and in the individual accomplishments and development of the players.
 
Check ur history bra!!!!

Actually it seems to be you Zulu who needs to check his history. Those early teams of Durant and Westbrook never even approached the level of losing we are all experiencing currently. There is being a losing team and then there is being historically bad. Durant and Westbrook never lost like this.
 
@thee
You say that when the younguns make mistakes they should be benched so they dont learn bad habits, and that is the way to develop them.

Well that is exactly what has been done with favors, kanter, and burks for years now........ how dat work out?

Maybe Its time to try something new.

Just hand the younguns 30 plus minutes per game and see what happens.
Maybe it won't work, but so far your plan has not panned out either so might as well give it a try.

Dumbass
 
Also, giving the vets lots o minutes has not worked either.

So giving vets minutes (whether earned or not) has not worked.

Benching the youth when they screw up to teach them a lesson has not worked.

The only thing left to try is hand the team over to the youth and see what happens.

Worst case scenario they only win 2 of thier next 20 games and look like busts while doing it...... which is no worse than where we are right now
 
@thee
You say that when the younguns make mistakes they should be benched so they dont learn bad habits, and that is the way to develop them.

Well that is exactly what has been done with favors, kanter, and burks for years now........ how dat work out?

Maybe Its time to try something new.

Just hand the younguns 30 plus minutes per game and see what happens.
Maybe it won't work, but so far your plan has not panned out either so might as well give it a try.

Dumbass

So...how many minutes are Kanter, Hayward and Favors averaging right now?
 
Actually it seems to be you Zulu who needs to check his history. Those early teams of Durant and Westbrook never even approached the level of losing we are all experiencing currently. There is being a losing team and then there is being historically bad. Durant and Westbrook never lost like this.

Dude... In 2008-09 season OKC started 3-29!!!!


Sorry gramps!!!
 
Dude... In 2008-09 season OKC started 3-29!!!!


Sorry gramps!!!

But they also had Durant and Westbrook. The Jazz don't have a freakishly lengthy seven footer with better skills than most NBA guards, nor do they have arguably the most athletic dude in the NBA.
 
I don't think their recent performance has anything to do with a sense of entitlement due to prematurely becoming starters and therefore operating under delusions of grandeur. I think it has more to do with discouragement over so much losing, so they lose confidence in what they have been doing individually and what they have been taught to do as a team, and so they are desperate to turn this into something positive. Which means for many of these guys, who have been used to being the go-to player at different levels throughout their lives, trying to take over the game themselves.

No player of a sport at a competitive level (NBA, college, high school, even rec league) easily accepts a losing role. It doesn't sit well, and most players will try to compensate, to change things up, to get back on a winning track. If the coaching staff isn't giving them the guidance, training, coaching, and support to at least trust and buy into what they are trying to accomplish as a team, the team philosophy if you will, even if it isn't immediately being successful, then they will start to unravel. This is potentially what we are witnessing.

And random benchings for perceived crappy play to "teach them a lesson" actually does no such thing. Unless it is in a very specific framework of clear expectations then that type of benching is only more damaging to the player's confidence and detrimental to their development. The players will benefit more from consistent levels of playing time, or rather consistent parameters on which playing time is predicated, coupled with clear expectations and goals, a reward system for exhibiting the correct or desired behaviors, and rotation, substitution, and matchup decisions based on the overall team philosophy. This gives the players something firm to hold onto, a reason to keep working the system, and the unity necessary to get the most out of every individual player as well as the team.

By the way, best coach in the league for this? Popovich. This is exactly the way he coaches, and it shows. Even when they go through rough stretches he gets the same effort, the same loyalty, from his players, and in the end the success follows, both for the team and in the individual accomplishments and development of the players.

Agree on the entitlement point but I couldn't disagree more on the notion that young players are giving up on the system and trying to do too much on their own. They are playing the system but failing at it miserably. There's a big difference in Popovich's luxury of having competent players buying into a system and the Jazz's situation of having players who cannot give up on a system because they can't play in it to begin with. The Jazz executed pretty well last night in the first and third quarters with starters in. There achilles heel is any team who can run on them off missed shots -- it get's ugly quick and that's exactly what happened last night.



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Some more on coaching: Tyrone did a pretty good job taking stuff away from Dragic early on last night. Their offense took a lot longer to get shots than they're used to. The Jazz also defended against the three much better than others have. Suns shot just .32% on 25 attempts vs. an average of .363% on 29 attempts. They also limited them to 75 attempts vs an average of 81.5.
 
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