Does Burks deserve to be a starter yet?

[franklin]

The list of players that have gotten the nod over alec at one point or another is laughable..... Josh howard, raja bell, cj miles, randy foye, Richard Jefferson, and to a lesser extent Jamaal tinsley and earl Watson.

Pretty crappy list.

Some people have always said that the team would be worse if alec starts and that alec would be worse in a starting role... it was always a safe thing for those people to say since alec never got to start.
If Hayward misses any significant amount of time then those folks will probably look like fools

You don't have to use his progress to be a dick about it.


Burks has taken leaps in December and January and is deserving more and more time. Some of you act like others are upset that he's playing better, and more importantly consistent. In November, he was shooting the Jazz out of games when given burn with his .448 TS%, .373 FG%, and .269 3pt%. In December and January he's upped his TS% to starter on a good team caliber of .571 and .568 (even though he's slumping from 3 in January).

His defense is still very suspect, however, and his inconsistent three point shooting is a drag on Trey, Favors, Hayward, and Kanter. Richard Jefferson will take (and deserves) minutes from him until Burks gets that 3 point shooting rounded out.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

I guess this post was kicking around in the back of my head:



But yeah. Has Burks' minutes over the last, say, 2 weeks not been on par with The Other Croe Fourve?

No. And that even includes two starts that he averaged 35 mpg in.

 

[Zulu]

Burks should be given a shot at starting opens up doors for trading Hayward...

Imagine if Boston gets the # 2 pick and we have # 5...

If burks can prove he is a starter then we trade hayward and #5 pick for #2 pick and Grab Parker!!

 

[seattlejazzfan]

You don't have to use his progress to be a dick about it.


Burks has taken leaps in December and January and is deserving more and more time. Some of you act like others are upset that he's playing better, and more importantly consistent. In November, he was shooting the Jazz out of games when given burn with his .448 TS%, .373 FG%, and .269 3pt%. In December and January he's upped his TS% to starter on a good team caliber of .571 and .568 (even though he's slumping from 3 in January).

His defense is still very suspect, however, and his inconsistent three point shooting is a drag on Trey, Favors, Hayward, and Kanter. Richard Jefferson will take (and deserves) minutes from him until Burks gets that 3 point shooting rounded out.

Inconsistent three point shooting. Lol. He is shooting 43% over the last month and a half. Give me that kind of inconsistency all day.

 

[fishonjazz]

But yeah. Has Burks' minutes over the last, say, 2 weeks not been on par with The Other Croe Fourve?

I went through the box scores back to December 18th. I did not include the last two games (because burks started and we are trying to gauge his minutes compared to the other core players that start)

Hayward: 37,39,40,28,32,38,38,37,37
Trey: 37,33,28,36,38,35,36,26,40
Derrick: 37,28,29,34,22,33,35,36,37
Alec: 26,23,31,27,23,31,16,30,34

Averages
Hayward: 36.2
Trey: 34.3
Derrick: 32.3 (derrick fouled out of one game in 20 minutes or his would be a couple minutes higher)
Alec: 26.7

So Alecs minutes in the last few weeks (9 games) are actually below his season averages despite the fact that he has been playing better recently.

*also, I didn't include the game against Atlanta because it was an aberration due to the fact that we lost by like 40 pts so everyone on the starting lineup didn't play much and everyone on the bench played tons. (though Gordon still led the team in minutes and alec still didn't break the 30 minute mark)

 

[fishonjazz]

Burks has taken leaps in December and January and is deserving more and more time.

His minutes in the last three weeks (off the bench) are actually lower than his season average

 

[fishonjazz]

I went through the box scores back to December 18th. I did not include the last two games (because burks started and we are trying to gauge his minutes compared to the other core players that start)

Hayward: 37,39,40,28,32,38,38,37,37
Trey: 37,33,28,36,38,35,36,26,40
Derrick: 37,28,29,34,22,33,35,36,37
Alec: 26,23,31,27,23,31,16,30,34

Averages
Hayward: 36.2
Trey: 34.3
Derrick: 32.3 (derrick fouled out of one game in 20 minutes or his would be a couple minutes higher)
Alec: 26.7

So Alecs minutes in the last few weeks (9 games) are actually below his season averages despite the fact that he has been playing better recently.

*also, I didn't include the game against Atlanta because it was an aberration due to the fact that we lost by like 40 pts so everyone on the starting lineup didn't play much and everyone on the bench played tons. (though Gordon still led the team in minutes and alec still didn't break the 30 minute mark)

Get Burks minutes up there around favors and I wont complain about him coming off the bench

 

[NUMBERICA]

Weird. That's bull ****.

 

[fishonjazz]

Inconsistent three point shooting. Lol. He is shooting 43% over the last month and a half. Give me that kind of inconsistency all day.

This.

Alec is an equal shooter to Jefferson recently (at least statistically), is a better slasher, defender, passer, ball handler, foul drawer, possibly better rebounder (not sure on that one), more fun for fans to watch, and has way more upside (only 22 years old and still improving), and is under contract next season.

 

[fishonjazz]

For ****s and giggles.

Jeffersons minutes over the same time frame. (9 games)

29,34,25,40,33,24,36,21,15 For an average of 28.5

So basically as alec burks has improved, his minutes have decreased and Jefferson have went up (to be fair, Jefferson has played well also)

What I can tell from all this data is that starting seems to help a player get more minutes on this current team.

 

[fishonjazz]

Also, these last two games with alec starting he has gotten 33 minutes and 37 minutes.

Seems like starting does actually make a difference in how the minutes are distributed

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Get Burks minutes up there around favors and I wont complain about him coming off the bench

Intersting numbers fish. Not surprising to those of us who watch the games, but interesting. Thanks for doing the research.

 

[fishonjazz]

Intersting numbers fish. Not surprising to those of us who watch the games, but interesting. Thanks for doing the research.

You are welcome..... I normally don't pull up numbers and stats cause it takes me forever to do (I pull up each box score individually and write down on paper each players numbers then have to add them up and divide by # of games.... I suck at using a computer) but im pretty passionate about this particular discussion so I took the time.

Last time that i will pull up that kind of info for quite a while now

 

[Sexual Favors]

I've been on the Alec Burks should start bandwagon for years now, but it's not even the starting that matters much, it's the minutes. The problem with not starting is that he misses 6-10 minutes of PT at the beginning of each half. Even if he plays the rest of the game (which he never does - he'll get pulled for the last half or so of the second quarter and sometimes the 4th) that means the most he can play is about 32 minutes. He's only averaging 27 minutes per - that is the problem. He played 38 tonight, partly because he started - he didn't miss those 6-10 minutes right off the bat. If Corbin would commit to bringing Burks in at the six minute mark of the 1st and 3rd and then let him play the rest of each half, that would be okay too. But the 27 minutes seems to be a problem.

The sporatic play is also bad for Kanter...

Burke
Burks
Hayward
Kanter
Favors

Absolutely needs to be tried for a 15 game stretch, regardless of anyones preconceived notion. Marvin can still be stretch 4 off the bench.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Another reason Burks should start (or just more minutes, period)

eFG% differential when playing with Trey to when they play without him.

Burks +18%
Favors +12%
Dick +10%
Kanter even
G-time even
Marvin -2%

 

[franklin]

Inconsistent three point shooting. Lol. He is shooting 43% over the last month and a half. Give me that kind of inconsistency all day.

I see his great shooting December has popped your cherry. Are you going to lay every shooting on a hot streak from now on?

 

[franklin]

I went through the box scores back to December 18th. I did not include the last two games (because burks started and we are trying to gauge his minutes compared to the other core players that start)

Hayward: 37,39,40,28,32,38,38,37,37
Trey: 37,33,28,36,38,35,36,26,40
Derrick: 37,28,29,34,22,33,35,36,37
Alec: 26,23,31,27,23,31,16,30,34

Averages
Hayward: 36.2
Trey: 34.3
Derrick: 32.3 (derrick fouled out of one game in 20 minutes or his would be a couple minutes higher)
Alec: 26.7

So Alecs minutes in the last few weeks (9 games) are actually below his season averages despite the fact that he has been playing better recently.

*also, I didn't include the game against Atlanta because it was an aberration due to the fact that we lost by like 40 pts so everyone on the starting lineup didn't play much and everyone on the bench played tons. (though Gordon still led the team in minutes and alec still didn't break the 30 minute mark)

I'm not seeing the relevance of Burks' playing time in comparison to other players at different positions. Trey, for example, is a given to play huge minutes (despite the whining that Corbin only like teh vets).

 

[DutchJazzer]

Burks' in-season improvement this season has been jaw-dropping. But I don't really get everyone's obsession with starting vs. not.

because development is also playing with certain players.
build chemistry.
like spurs. the more you play with certain guys the les turnovers you will have int he futre as a unit

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not seeing the relevance of Burks' playing time in comparison to other players at different positions.

First of all the discussion was about whether alec would get more minutes as a starter (dalamon saying it doesnt matter if he starts or not)
He has gotten more minutes as a starter than off the bench and all the starters average more minutes than all the bench players.


Also you talked about how alec is finally starting to play better in december and january and he sucked in november

Yet his minutes are actually on a downward trend (averaging less minutes lately than his season average) and jeffersons minutes are on an upward trend

Also, these last two games with alec starting he has gotten 33 minutes and 37 minutes.

Seems like starting does actually make a difference in how the minutes are distributed

For ****s and giggles.

Jeffersons minutes over the same time frame. (9 games)

29,34,25,40,33,24,36,21,15 For an average of 28.5

So basically as alec burks has improved, his minutes have decreased and Jefferson have went up (to be fair, Jefferson has played well also)

What I can tell from all this data is that starting seems to help a player get more minutes on this current team.

His minutes in the last three weeks (off the bench) are actually lower than his season average

 

[fishonjazz]

I see his great shooting December has popped your cherry. Are you going to lay every shooting on a hot streak from now on?

Here was your post about alecs shooting

his inconsistent three point shooting is a drag on Trey, Favors, Hayward, and Kanter. Richard Jefferson will take (and deserves) minutes from him until Burks gets that 3 point shooting rounded out.

So burks 3 point shooting has in fact rounded out for the last month and a half like you wanted, yet burks minutes have went down