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Dear FRONT OFFICE: NO ONE WANTS TO WIN GAMES WITH RJ AND MW!

GVC said:
I'm chill, just trying to understand what you're trying to say.

Specifically, what role are you talking about?

Also:
Did I misread this?

I don't see an insult in that post. I don't understand what exactly Hayward is going to do differently if RJ isn't on the team.
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The role RJ plays. Spacing the floor. Hitting open jumpers. Not saying he can. I'd like to see him with more pressure. Basically can he fill RJ's role?
I threw that in there. Again that's not the reason I want RJ gone. The original point of this thread was I want to win or lose without those guys.

I want to play the rookies now without the vets. At least with less of them. I don't care about winning games this year. If the rookies can step up, and fill those roles then so be it. I want to see what we have now with Trey. We did suck at the beginning of the year, but we were minus Burke. I'd like to see the core 5 play, grow and struggle together.
You and Mantis think the young guns growth will be stunted without RJ, and/ or Marvin right? I don't. I respect your difference of opinion. No need to say mine is ignorant.
 
GVC said:
How is that a problem? If Alec is only able to contribute by putting the ball in the basket, he's never going to be a solid starter in the NBA. His ability to score is incredibly overrated by Jazzfanz posters.
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yet he was the only one scoring vs the timberwolves.

alec will always score
 
Revolution 9 said:
I had to eat some crow especially early on about Marvin. Remember my hatred for him last year? He helped this team win some games, and his impact in spacing can't be denied. That's why I want him gone today, because he gives us just enough to help sway some games.

RJ helps some games as well, but he seems to have one foot out the door.
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i said lastyear marvin aint that bad he was just the 5th option in a 1 option alfense.
 
GVC said:
Just so we're clear, Hayward is second on the team in catch and shoot field goal attempts per game, and first in minutes per game playing with Trey.

Is it fair to say you think Ty should take the ball out of Hayward's hands, and use him exclusively as a spot up shooter now? Haven't we already seen Hayward filling that role well the last couple seasons? Don't you think it might be more valuable to see if he can handle on-ball duties this season?
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Lets start with this. Do you think Hayward could step up and fill RJ's role on this team if he were traded?
 
Revolution 9 said:
Lets start with this. Do you think Hayward could step up and fill RJ's role on this team if he were traded?
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I thought he did a pretty damn good job spotting up last season, so yeah he probably can. I think it's far more valuable to see if he can operate on-ball, especially since paying a spot-up shooter potentially $11mil+ per year would be a mistake.
 
GVC said:
I thought he did a pretty damn good job spotting up last season, so yeah he probably can. I think it's far more valuable to see if he can operate on-ball, especially since paying a spot-up shooter potentially $11mil+ per year would be a mistake.
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Can he do both? I don't want him to give up what he already does well.
 
Revolution 9 said:
Can he do both? I don't want him to give up what he already does well.
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He's not giving up what he does well. Again, he's second on the team in catch and shoot attempts per game, while still getting plenty of opportunities to create. Do you want the ball taken out of his hands?
 
GVC said:
He's not giving up what he does well. Again, he's second on the team in catch and shoot attempts per game, while still getting plenty of opportunities to create. Do you want the ball taken out of his hands?
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So if we end up with the 8-12 seed where do we go with Hayward? Are you leaning towards resigning? What is your vision that beats out tanking, and going for Parker, and Wiggins?
 
Revolution 9 said:
So if we end up with the 8-12 seed where do we go with Hayward? Are you leaning towards resigning? What is your vision that beats out tanking, and going for Parker, and Wiggins?
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The FO made the moves to tank the season. The young talent on the team is outperforming expectations. This team was never going to be as bad as Milwaukee, Philly or Orlando. I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are upset that they've gotten exactly what they asked for: Young players in lead roles playing well.

As for Hayward, the early returns are not good. While he's added some bulk, he still isn't strong or athletic enough to handle a role as a perimeter stopper (against the physical/athletic, talented wings in the league) or impose his will on-ball. He's been pretty mediocre on drives and pull ups. He's a heady, team player, and I think his spot-up game will come around (as it was fine prior to this season), but I'd definitely be taking calls on him. Not sure I'd be excited to have Hayward signed anywhere north of $10mm per year.
 
GVC said:
The FO made the moves to tank the season. The young talent on the team is outperforming expectations. This team was never going to be as bad as Milwaukee, Philly or Orlando. I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are upset that they've gotten exactly what they asked for: Young players in lead roles playing well.

As for Hayward, the early returns are not good. While he's added some bulk, he still isn't strong or athletic enough to handle a role as a perimeter stopper (against the physical/athletic, talented wings in the league) or impose his will on-ball. He's been pretty mediocre on drives and pull ups. He's a heady, team player, and I think his spot-up game will come around (as it was fine prior to this season), but I'd definitely be taking calls on him. Not sure I'd be excited to have Hayward signed anywhere north of $10mm per year.
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Good to read where you are coming from. So it sounds like you aren't sold on Hayward as being the man. He's not the #1 we hoped for. So how are we going to get that guy? Trey needs a partner to take this team to where we all want to go. Please tell me there is a FA we have a shot at. Otherwise the team "outperforming expectations" will leave us without that guy in the draft. Unless we get really lucky.
 
Revolution 9 said:
Good to read where you are coming from. So it sounds like you aren't sold on Hayward as being the man. He's not the #1 we hoped for. So how are we going to get that guy? Trey needs a partner to take this team to where we all want to go. Please tell me there is a FA we have a shot at. Otherwise the team "outperforming expectations" will leave us without that guy in the draft. Unless we get really lucky.
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The point is, there's nothing to be done about the Jazz winning, short of sitting the young players (I find the counterargument more than a little disingenuous, since it mostly comes from people who think Ty, Marvin and RJ are garbage...).

The FO needs to continue collecting assets as best they can. I also don't think anyone on the roster is untouchable. Trey, Alec, Gordo, Derrick and Kanter all have their warts. It'll be interesting to see how DL handles the trade deadline, Gordo's next contract (if he's not traded), the draft and offseason, and potential extensions for Enes and Alec.

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy watching the young talent on this team grow.
 
Revolution 9 said:
You won't get me to agree with you. It's not about understanding oh great teacher you. It's difference of opinion.
They understand what wins games. It's not like they are rookies. Most of them went to the playoffs. If you put the core 5 out there together they will have to figure it out on their own. That is part of the process they can't skip. Trey, Hayward, and Kanter all have the capacity to hits shots. If they weren't relying on the vets so much we'd see how they adjust. In the meantime getting a great player in the draft. As I've said what these vets have done is debatable. Arguing this is pointless. Where we go from here is what I'm worried about.
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The core is so great they went 1=14 without Trey. Yup, they know how to win.
 
franklin said:
The core is so great they went 1=14 without Trey. Yup, they know how to win.
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The core is flawed on it's own. We have lots of nice pieces to go around a star. I think the whole point is the Core 5 won't go anywhere without a top lottery pick, or FA. Which will be easier to get?
 
Revolution 9 said:
The core is flawed on it's own. We have lots of nice pieces to go around a star. I think the whole point is the Core 5 won't go anywhere without a top lottery pick, or FA. Which will be easier to get?
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How do you know they won't go anywhere? Burke is a rookie, may win ROTY too. Favors is 22, Kanter 21. Burks started only several games in his career and is averaging what, 21 points?
Hayward showed he can't be the #1 though. But I'd not rule out one of the core guys could develop into a real star.
 
I would imagine that between RJ, MW, Bieds, and Rush, the Jazz will make a strong attempt to move 2 of the 4 at deadline. RJ and MW are both proving that they can be valuable to a playoff team.
 
jjscap said:
How do you know they won't go anywhere? Burke is a rookie, may win ROTY too. Favors is 22, Kanter 21. Burks started only several games in his career and is averaging what, 21 points?
Hayward showed he can't be the #1 though. But I'd not rule out one of the core guys could develop into a real star.
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We don't know, but we have to judge somehow on what we've seen. What I see is a star in the making in Burke, and a good supporting cast. I see inconsistency in Hayward/Burks, but big game potential in all of them. So far they don't look like a championship caliber team to me. They look like the supporting cast to one though...just missing that guy like Wiggins or Jabari or a FA.

How do you feel about this current squad?
 
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