Yesterday - Bundy Ranch

[babe]

The BLM has been trying to get Bundy to keep his cattle off federal land for years. After 20 years of free grazing (he didn't pay $1M+ in grazing fees), they are finally removing them (and he will get them back).

Bundy argues his family has been grazing before the BLM was created, but the US existed, and the grazing land incorporated US territory. They are not taking his land away. They are protecting federal land. I don't see what the issue is here. The federal government employs principles of land use planning and environmental protection to preserve the natural resources and scenic beauty found on public land. A determination has been made and upheld by courts that this land is better off preserved than grazed upon.

Your facts are wrong. The fees claimed owed by the Bundys are in the range of about $50,000. When the BLM was created and given the power to charge existing grazing users, it was represented that these fees were necessary in order for the BLM to construct fences and improve waterholes/build ponds and troughs for the people who legally owned their grazing rights, according to many judicial results in our courts. Gradually, over many years the BLM has reduced it's expenditures for "improvements" and asserted charges for "grazing". We should never tolerate that kind of illegal actions by government officials. Grazing rights are real property interests, and the government is prohibited by the Constitution from enacting "Post Facto laws". . .. laws that apply to past facts. The government cannot change facts of law by passing new laws. New laws can't appropriate private property rights.

That's something the government, not even Congress nor the President has power to take without paying for those legal grazing rights.

The Louisiana Purchase was the first test of this principal. Thomas Jefferson understood the conflict posed by a Federal Purchase. But it was approved by Congress under the law that new states would be created, which would own the land in those states.

The State of Utah, on negotiating terms for Statehood, secured an agreement from Congress and the President, that all lands would belong to the State of Utah. Instead, only the lands covered under an old legislation regarding public support for schools within territories and states were turned over. Even so, the Federal government at that time was hold all federal land open for homesteading, and it went that way for thirty years. . .. before the BLM began to "manage" anything.

All legal precedent gives grazers or settlers title to their land. If you care to debate it, it can still be sustained on the legal principle of "Adverse Possession", the legal fact in the case of Cliven Bundy. If anyone settles land and occupies it for twenty years, it's just his, period.

 

[babe]

The way you lose your rights is by not standing up for the rights of others.

 

[Dr. Jones]

In agreance with me or Heyhey?

Was referring to your post.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The way you lose your rights is by not standing up for the rights of others.

.

 

[♪alt13]

Heyhey those guys believe what they are saying, that is the thing. They believe in what they are doing and I think if the situation deteriorates they will fight.

Foolosh or not they believe in and are dedicated to what they do. That makes them the most dangerous of the protestors. If a bunch of them start getting tased I'd expect a more violent reaction than you typical protestor.

He just seems like a guy that likes to play dress up in his moms basement to me. I can't wait to get to the revolution, can somebody give me a ride lol.

Dude wouldn't do ****. He would leave his gun in his friends moms minivan. SRS officers if you see this man Taser his *** and send my a link, thx in advance.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

<3



you're flat.

[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]. You want wage war on my flat?

This not good idea i have good KGB guns not these sissy pistols your American flag garment wearing mob hide in their underwear. I will dual wield AA-12 fully automatic shotguns in futurist garb which make me look like character from Halo video game. Your little army friends paranoid so i say "hello, alien is here let's us make machine gun love". I then scared them off on chopped up Harley scooters and have make you Swedish meatball plate from desert tortoise with some licorice spice to calm your bowel.

Other thing is my flat is trashed and smelly from KGB party. They make puke everywhere then kidnap my cleanings lady Alice. Not good place to come today okay homie dog?

 

[Stoked]

He just seems like a guy that likes to play dress up in his moms basement to me. I can't wait to get to the revolution, can somebody give me a ride lol.

Dude wouldn't do ****. He would leave his gun in his friends moms minivan. SRS officers if you see this man Taser his *** and send my a link, thx in advance.

Don't judge real 3% based on this guy. Real 3%s are not making Youtube videos. They are out performing military drills, collecting weapons, food, gas, water, medicine, and other related gear. Real 3%s truly believe this tyrannical government rise of the people ****. I'd bet money on them engaging in firefights when the time comes. They may not be the level of our soldiers but they sure as hell are not a bunch of jackasses running around with their heads cut off. The work as a unit like a SWAT team.

Edit: a lot of 3%s are ex military. Like Seals, rangers and ****.

 

[franklin]

Something I just remembered, PKM. There was a thread about kicking people out of a trailer park and you commented something about highest and best use, and that they didn't have an agreement and should have purchased the land if they wanted property rights. Why are you taking what seems to me the exact opposite stand in this instance?

 

[franklin]

lol. Just googled iii%. These guys are worse than ignorant hillbillies they're a bunch of delusional suburbanites. If this guy goes down there and gets tazed please send me a link to the vid.

I just went through there website and what a mess they are. With this one, their entire complaint is that the BLM went out of their way to set up a special area for these people to protest from instead of temporarily shutting down the entire area.

This is how they thank the BLM for accommodating them? Keep these protests up and they'll eventually remove "free speech zones" and replace them with no trespassing signs.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Something I just remembered, PKM. There was a thread about kicking people out of a trailer park and you commented something about highest and best use, and that they didn't have an agreement and should have purchased the land if they wanted property rights. Why are you taking what seems to me the exact opposite stand in this instance?

You, like many others, have missed my entire point in this long thread.

My problem is with the how not the why. If that trailer park would have had hundreds of federal agents, snipers, armored vehicles, and drones (yes) surrounding them I would have been saying wtf.

I want to know wtf the feds are trying to prove with all this muscle.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I just went through there website and what a mess they are. With this one, their entire complaint is that the BLM went out of their way to set up a special area for these people to protest from instead of temporarily shutting down the entire area.

This is how they thank the BLM for accommodating them? Keep these protests up and they'll eventually remove "free speech zones" and replace them with no trespassing signs.

That is not their entire complaint. With all I've put into this the last several days I resent such a sucky take. I don't even think they're right... but that is not a responsible take on their complaints.

On a positive side, you guys have worn me down on the subject though.

 

[franklin]

You, like many others, have missed my entire point in this long thread.

My problem is with the how not the why. If that trailer park would have had hundreds of federal agents, snipers, armored vehicles, and drones (yes) surrounding them I would have been saying wtf.

I want to know wtf the feds are trying to prove with all this muscle.

I understand this point you've made several times now, and noticed you've repeated yourself that we're all not getting it but trust me that we do. I too would like to know exactly why they thought the muscle was necessary (though the complaints that are getting everyone riled being over-sensationalized by some, and possibly manufactured for sympathy). I was directing the question more as a philosophical inquiry based on your comments about the family being there since the beginning of time and not being properly recognized for their charity. I can see how emotionally involved you are and it was a bad time to ask you about it. Sorry.

Also, kudos to your wife for taking the bull by the horns with this.

That is not their entire complaint. With all I've put into this the last several days I resent such a sucky take. I don't even think they're right... but that is not a responsible take on their complaints.

On a positive side, you guys have worn me down on the subject though.

I don't think you read through the site I was talking about. In addition to that complaint, the author is mildly disguising open violence, preparing for treasonous last stands, promotes partaking in illegal activities, etc.

I noticed the Bundy wife is purposefully distancing her family from these types of people. That's a very good idea.

 

[Dr. Jones]

On site... just got service back... I just got word from a high-ranking politician friend that we the people may be winning this. Gaining support in recent hours. Could be over and blm pulling out by tomorrow. Mixed feelings tbh.

 

[Stoked]

On site... just got service back... I just got word from a high-ranking politician friend that we the people may be winning this. Gaining support in recent hours. Could be over and blm pulling out by tomorrow. Mixed feelings tbh.

If that is the case I'd bet money the militias try to take all the credit and market the hell out of this for members and donations (money and gear).

 

[babe]

I understand this point you've made several times now, and noticed you've repeated yourself that we're all not getting it but trust me that we do. I too would like to know exactly why they thought the muscle was necessary (though the complaints that are getting everyone riled being over-sensationalized by some, and possibly manufactured for sympathy). I was directing the question more as a philosophical inquiry based on your comments about the family being there since the beginning of time and not being properly recognized for their charity. I can see how emotionally involved you are and it was a bad time to ask you about it. Sorry.

Also, kudos to your wife for taking the bull by the horns with this.





I don't think you read through the site I was talking about. In addition to that complaint, the author is mildly disguising open violence, preparing for treasonous last stands, promotes partaking in illegal activities, etc.

I noticed the Bundy wife is purposefully distancing her family from these types of people. That's a very good idea.

I'd like to take up your specific inquiries, if I may. . . .

Well, maybe I'd rather just ramble. . . . I remember when a Bundy family lived across the street form me. Their mom was my babysitter, one boy was my age. We played Andy-I-Over and had great fun. They moved back out to Bundyville, though, and then to Hurricane. When I was in High School a bunch of Bundys would come to town on Saturday nights to roller skate in the rink I was managing. Their whole point in coming skating was to raise hell. . .. test my limits. They were all heavy-set boys who could throw a bale of hay over their heads.

I didn't need to call the cops though, because I was just good enough on skates, and they were just bad enough on skates, I could sit them down so hard their tailbones would hurt, and when I told them to take off their skates and get out of the rink, they did so.

Later in my miserable life, one of those boys was my boss for almost ten years. It was payback time.

In American politics we have a lot of ideas competing for legitimacy. I think Cliven Bundy isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer regarding innate human rights and natural human liberty, but I agree with him absolutely.

The rest of you derelict bums are selling your birthrights for a mess of socialist pottage.

come see me on the LTE in a few days. I'm going to Bunkerville.

Under democratic or republican constitutional principles, our government is obligated to be subject to the people. If it isn't, it's time for a new government, whatever it takes. The ball is in the government's court right now, and those honchos are going to decide if it's time to jump the shark and take down democracy. The entire concept of government agencies with heavily armed swat teams, acting on their own orders, playing judge and jury and executioner, is just absolutely and intolerably wrong. Just as wrong for some hayseed patriots to go extra-legal and outside of the democratic process as well, but that is absolutely not what the Bundys did.

They had cameras, for hell's sake. They were going to take pictures and show them to judges. And our brownshirt Nazi thug BLM morons had some objections to that.

That's the whole story, buddy. It's exactly what we cannot tolerate, as a free people.

As long as cameras can trump guns, we will still have a republic with human rights.

 

[franklin]

I'd like to take up your specific inquiries, if I may. . . .

Well, maybe I'd rather just ramble. . . . I remember when a Bundy family lived across the street form me. Their mom was my babysitter, one boy was my age. We played Andy-I-Over and had great fun. They moved back out to Bundyville, though, and then to Hurricane. When I was in High School a bunch of Bundys would come to town on Saturday nights to roller skate in the rink I was managing. Their whole point in coming skating was to raise hell. . .. test my limits. They were all heavy-set boys who could throw a bale of hay over their heads.

I didn't need to call the cops though, because I was just good enough on skates, and they were just bad enough on skates, I could sit them down so hard their tailbones would hurt, and when I told them to take off their skates and get out of the rink, they did so.

Later in my miserable life, one of those boys was my boss for almost ten years. It was payback time.

Cool story, thanks as always for sharing.

The rest of you derelict bums are selling your birthrights for a mess of socialist pottage.

Birthright, babe? Are you a King's Man now? There is no birthright in democracy, it's the antithesis to democracy.

Under democratic or republican constitutional principles, our government is obligated to be subject to the people. If it isn't, it's time for a new government, whatever it takes. The ball is in the government's court right now, and those honchos are going to decide if it's time to jump the shark and take down democracy. The entire concept of government agencies with heavily armed swat teams, acting on their own orders, playing judge and jury and executioner, is just absolutely and intolerably wrong. Just as wrong for some hayseed patriots to go extra-legal and outside of the democratic process as well, but that is absolutely not what the Bundys did.

You know, for all your ramblings about people thinking for themselves and supporting liberties, you sure do take a predictable stance on these issues. Maybe you should do a little more free thinking... The democratic process worked exactly how it should in this instance, yet here you are saying this is wrong because you disagree with the results? And based on "birthright" of all things?

They had cameras, for hell's sake. They were going to take pictures and show them to judges. And our brownshirt Nazi thug BLM morons had some objections to that.

That's the whole story, buddy. It's exactly what we cannot tolerate, as a free people.

As long as cameras can trump guns, we will still have a republic with human rights.

Okay, let's review the facts:

Bundy's openly violated the law for 20 years. Bundy's were told repeatedly to remove their cattle from OUR public lands. Bundy's refused to comply with democratically enacted laws. Bundy's [allegedly] made violent threats before and after the incident. Bundy's, after being complete pains in our asses for 20 years, decided to trespass on OUR public lands that were at the time off limits to them and the rest of us, despite OUR government going out of the way to accommodate them with an area to do their protesting [a democratically enacted process] from. With threats of violence, OUR government decided to secure the area from possible violent retaliation, and to remove some law breaking pains in our asses in a safe and secure way. The Bundy's allege that OUR government did this in an overly violent way. Excuse me for laughing a bit at the situation they and their followers (who are falling in line based on utopic ideals rather than reviewing the facts fairly and unbiased) are trying to paint. Downplaying this as They just had cameras, buddy, is ignoring everything leading up to and surrounding this situation.

I don't see what your problem with this is. Especially as an honest cattle farmer who is being undercut by those who were gaining unfair advantage by refusing to respect the integrity of our process.

 

[franklin]

p.s. you never addressed my previous question.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Cool story, thanks as always for sharing.

I assume that's not a patronizing tone. I mean that.

Birthright, babe? Are you a King's Man now? There is no birthright in democracy, it's the antithesis to democracy.

Different paradigms (or definitions), maybe? A birthright? No. But it's more than nothing. I am still a believer in the fathers.. not buying they were satanists.

You know, for all your ramblings about people thinking for themselves and supporting liberties, you sure do take a predictable stance on these issues. Maybe you should do a little more free thinking... The democratic process worked exactly how it should in this instance, yet here you are saying this is wrong because you disagree with the results? And based on "birthright" of all things?

Ramblings? Damn, bro.. babe is one of the rare few still remaining that speak a word we all need to hear. No cold water please. Free thinking alludes us all, at times, but none are beyond reproach of such travesty.

Okay, let's review the facts:

Bundy's openly violated the law for 20 years. Bundy's were told repeatedly to remove their cattle from OUR public lands. Bundy's refused to comply with democratically enacted laws. Bundy's [allegedly] made violent threats before and after the incident. Bundy's, after being complete pains in our asses for 20 years, decided to trespass on OUR public lands that were at the time off limits to them and the rest of us, despite OUR government going out of the way to accommodate them with an area to do their protesting [a democratically enacted process] from. With threats of violence, OUR government decided to secure the area from possible violent retaliation, and to remove some law breaking pains in our asses in a safe and secure way. The Bundy's allege that OUR government did this in an overly violent way. Excuse me for laughing a bit at the situation they and their followers (who are falling in line based on utopic ideals rather than reviewing the facts fairly and unbiased) are trying to paint. Downplaying this as They just had cameras, buddy, is ignoring everything leading up to and surrounding this situation.

I don't see what your problem with this is. Especially as an honest cattle farmer who is being undercut by those who were gaining unfair advantage by refusing to respect the integrity of our process.

Bundy's openly violated a law that contradicted a previously substantiated law. (and refused to comply with the same)

Can't say I know what a 'utopic ideal' is.. but I am becoming certain it is steeped in urban legend and a lazy historical view of basic inalienable rights.

 

[Dr. Jones]

FAA just closed off air space above Bundy Ranch.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Almost back home.. not sure we'll be going back.