Hayward awarded for his defense

[akirac73]

The Jazz may have had the worst collection of perimeter defenders in the league: Trey, Diante (who may have actually been the best of the bunch by default), Alec, Gordo, RJ. The standard for "best" here is pretty low.

Gordo was definitely better than Trey, Alec and RJ defensively. IMO his transition D is pretty good.

I believe Haytimes transition D is at an elite level in the league...but his halfcourt/perimeter D is mediocre at best, which is strange...he has the physical tools to be an all around great defender.

 

[GVC]

he has the physical tools to be an all around great defender.

Really? Seems to me his footspeed, strength and vertical are all below average for NBA wings.

 

[Game6Conley]

Play defense.

 

[akirac73]

Really? Seems to me his footspeed, strength and vertical are all below average for NBA wings.

He doesn't possess John Wall type speed, but he has deceptive speed (sorta like Dwill). He's has the length to block shots. You don't always need off the chart combine measurements to be a good defender in this league...see guys like Bruce Bowen, Joe Dumars, Bryon Russell, Shane Battier, Bobby Hansen LOL,...

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Got any actual evidence? Since you don't like defense stats since you've used none so far, describe what percentage of the 2552 minutes Afflalo played and how they compared to whatever percent of the 2187 minutes McLemore played this year.

 

[Game6Conley]

Got any actual evidence? Since you don't like defense stats since you've used none so far, describe what percentage of the 2552 minutes Afflalo played and how they compared to whatever percent of the 2187 minutes McLemore played this year.

Since when did Real Plus-Minus and PER not take into account some defensive statistics? why are you trying to imply that I'm avoiding these awful points your making in defense of Ben McLemore?

The context that Afflalo was brought up in was not about his defense, it was about him being one of the 5 worst rotation players in the league, which is preposterous. You've attempted to focus solely on defense to serve your argument, as anything related to offense clearly separates AA from the 5 worst rotation players in the league.

But continue on. Humor me;

state your case that McLemore is a superior defender, if its so obvious I'm sure you can throw together a few paragraphs or a bulleted list. Bring all the evidence you can find.

 

[Game6Conley]

describe what percentage of the 2552 minutes Afflalo played and how they compared to whatever percent of the 2187 minutes McLemore played this year.

sure, ill repeat myself if you didnt catch it the first time.

Afflalo was worse than Ben McLemore? whos offensive win shares were a negative number, and scored 8.8 points on 8.3 shots 37% from the field 32% from 3, Ast/TO ratio below 1 in the same type of minutes as Harkless and Aminu.

18.2 ppg, 3.6 rebs, 3.4 assists, .5 stl, 1.7 to's on 46% from the field, and 43% from 3 on 4.1 attempts are the stats of a bottom five rotation player in the NBA?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

And his defense stats cancel out all those offensive stats.

 

[Game6Conley]

And his defense stats cancel out all those offensive stats.

So in your estimation, McLemores vastly superior defense outweighs both his own offensive limitations, and the proficiency of Afflalo's offense when comparing their worth as rotation players?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

So in your estimation, McLemores vastly superior defense outweighs both his own offensive limitations, and the proficiency of Afflalo's offense when comparing their worth as rotation players?

That's what the stats show.

Not that I actually really care one way or the other. When you actually look at the stats and how one's team plays with the player on and off the court, it's at least reasonable to make the argument that Afflalo was one of the worst 5 wings in the league.

 

[Game6Conley]

That's what the stats show.

Not that I actually really care one way or the other. When you actually look at the stats and how one's team plays with the player on and off the court, it's at least reasonable to make the argument that Afflalo was one of the worst 5 wings in the league.

What stats show hes a vastly superior defender, where are they? wtf are you looking at. im calling total bs, your making this **** up. your claims are totally unsubstantiated

post Afflalo's stats next to McLemores.

then make a big deal about a bunch of marginal differences, thats basically what your argument boils down to.

Im ashamed to see an Earthbound related sig attatched to this argument.

Their defensive ratings were exactly the same last season, 112. wheres the great divide in defense you speak of? Ben McLemores steal% was a whopping 1% his block% was 0.7

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Afflalo's -6 defensive on/off split was probably the worst in the league. McLemore was -3. Terrible, but not catastrophic. In comparison, Afflalo was slightly positive offensively on/off, while McLemore was -2.5. Both end around -5 and change.