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Poll: Should the Jazz Match Hayward's $15.75 a year/4 year Contract?

Should They Match?

  • Total voters
    181
  • Poll closed .
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Trevor Ariza has won a championship, hes had injuries that coincided with his down years, you forget key points like that in your all seeing analysis.

Everyone talks of 3 and D players around here, but clearly the overall sentiment is yall prefer Hayward.

You are flat out wrong about Brook Lopez, if hes healthy and normal he will EASILY get the max, at this point in his career, hes bigger and stronger than most every C, Lopez is like Prime Yao on offense. He punked the Jazz bigmen so bad last year, he barely needed to play in the 2nd half.

Lopez is my preferred Bigman in the 2015 class but IIRC theres a bunch of them, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Asik, enough where if the Jazz had 30 mil in space they could throw out a bunch of offers to worthy players.

Theres a ton of mid-level guys that are interesting; Wesley Matthews, Marco Bellineli, Danny Green, Thaddeus Young

Tobias Harris and Reggie Jackson are restricted. Faried too.

Goran Dragic will opt out, Gerald Green will be on the market, if he has another efficient year, I'd sign him to a decent sized deal no problems.

Maybe even a Gerald Henderson, or Gary Neal. Demarre Carrol, Paul Millsap and Rajon Rondo will be unrestricted aswell.

I can find 100's of scenarios that i prefer over giving Hayward 63 mil, tbh, some of it might take 1 year of patience, but the Tank would strengthen as a result too.
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Wouldn't mind seeing those 2 back in SL. Millsap and Favors would make a pretty nice pairing now with Favors playing the C and Millsap learning how to shoot those 3's and the league going small ball.
 
framer said:
Lessee, the Blazers, Lakers, Suns, Spurs, Raptors, Heat, Sixers, and Magic for starters, plus anyone that can use those teams to create cap space. (obviously some of these teams fight fill some of that space between now and then. . .) Also, the Knicks even if they sign Carmelo.

On the flip side, you could use that cap space to make a run at Wesley Matthews if you fancied him who will be an RFA next year.
Click to expand...

Lemme see:
Blazers: At least 56.5M cap hold if they renounce every slacker. That would exclude them from using MLE though. Not sure they want that. Also some of their own guys are due for raises. -> Unlikely
Lakers: Have Cap Space but usually go for big fish. Kobe $25M + Randle $3.1M + Love $18.5M + some other long term contracts they make this summer or at least $5M for roster slot cap holds. Leaves them at $15M in projected cap space. Also eventually their own draft pick has a hold. Way too vague. But my best guess they find another way to spend. Also Burks and Kobe are redundant to some extent. -> Too early to tell, but possible.
Suns: Could be depending on what they do with Gerald Green, Dragic. But if they're about keeping their functioning unit together, they wouldn't wanna spend their limited cap space on him, but look for reinforcements on the big positions. Have to deal with Morris bros as restricted as well. -> too early to tell, but unlikely
Spurs: Are capped due to expirings from Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Belinelli, Green. Also Kawhi (Spurs-close-to) max extension kicks in(They'll give him that) -> very unlikely
RAptors: No need with them being close to the cap when you subtract bums, having to deal with extending Amir Johnson. Have invested heavily in their backcourt: Lowry($12M), Vasquez($6.5M), DeRozan($9.5M), Ross($3.5M, rookie ends after 15/16), Caboclo ($1.3M). -> no chance
Heat: If big 3 remain, no cap space. Else they might spend their capspace on him if they don't want to traditionally rebuild. -> unlikely, too early to tell
Sixers: Want to be bad competitively until 2016 or 2017. Too early for them to start contributing pieces. Burks not good enough a shooter to pick up good value and leave that plan -> Very unlikely.
Magic: Backcourt minutes are for other guys. Also too bad a shooter to help them. Invested in Lil' Ben to shoot the lights out as reserve guard. -> unlikely, because another piece with no shooting. But then again Orlando was weird this draft as well.
 
BTP said:
Lemme see:
Blazers: At least 56.5M cap hold if they renounce every slacker. That would exclude them from using MLE though. Not sure they want that. Also some of their own guys are due for raises. -> Unlikely
Lakers: Have Cap Space but usually go for big fish. Kobe $25M + Randle $3.1M + Love $18.5M + some other long term contracts they make this summer or at least $5M for roster slot cap holds. Leaves them at $15M in projected cap space. Also eventually their own draft pick has a hold. Way too vague. But my best guess they find another way to spend. Also Burks and Kobe are redundant to some extent. -> Too early to tell, but possible.
Suns: Could be depending on what they do with Gerald Green, Dragic. But if they're about keeping their functioning unit together, they wouldn't wanna spend their limited cap space on him, but look for reinforcements on the big positions. Have to deal with Morris bros as restricted as well. -> too early to tell, but unlikely
Spurs: Are capped due to expirings from Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Belinelli, Green. Also Kawhi (Spurs-close-to) max extension kicks in(They'll give him that) -> very unlikely
RAptors: No need with them being close to the cap when you subtract bums, having to deal with extending Amir Johnson. Have invested heavily in their backcourt: Lowry($12M), Vasquez($6.5M), DeRozan($9.5M), Ross($3.5M, rookie ends after 15/16), Caboclo ($1.3M). -> no chance
Heat: If big 3 remain, no cap space. Else they might spend their capspace on him if they don't want to traditionally rebuild. -> unlikely, too early to tell
Sixers: Want to be bad competitively until 2016 or 2017. Too early for them to start contributing pieces. Burks not good enough a shooter to pick up good value and leave that plan -> Very unlikely.
Magic: Backcourt minutes are for other guys. Also too bad a shooter to help them. Invested in Lil' Ben to shoot the lights out as reserve guard. -> unlikely, because another piece with no shooting. But then again Orlando was weird this draft as well.
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Nice try, but let's face it this is all speculation at this point.
 
Enes CanTear You Apart said:
What's your projections with the contention window, I mean specifically the time span and all?

Deng or Hayward, I don't see us above mediocrity anywhere near soon, either way. First round survivers at best. Even if we are competitive after a couple years, I see Hayward as just a nice piece for us, a contender team, but he's not essential(irreplaceable I mean) in my opinion. I've always argued for reducing the role of Hayward on the team. Point forward doesn't work in the NBA unless you have it in Lebron James or you have a highly innovative game style ala Magic with Dwight/Hedo plus shooters.

And, in case just you don't know, I'm a Gordo lover, I like versatile, finesse and smart players and I always thought he was underrated in the forum.
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2018 if development is better than anticipated at earliest barring some contributing veteran additions.

PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Trevor Ariza has won a championship, hes had injuries that coincided with his down years, you forget key points like that in your all seeing analysis.

Everyone talks of 3 and D players around here, but clearly the overall sentiment is yall prefer Hayward.

You are flat out wrong about Brook Lopez, if hes healthy and normal he will EASILY get the max, at this point in his career, hes bigger and stronger than most every C, Lopez is like Prime Yao on offense. He punked the Jazz bigmen so bad last year, he barely needed to play in the 2nd half.

Lopez is my preferred Bigman in the 2015 class but IIRC theres a bunch of them, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Asik, enough where if the Jazz had 30 mil in space they could throw out a bunch of offers to worthy players.

Theres a ton of mid-level guys that are interesting; Wesley Matthews, Marco Bellineli, Danny Green, Thaddeus Young

Tobias Harris and Reggie Jackson are restricted. Faried too.

Goran Dragic will opt out, Gerald Green will be on the market, if he has another efficient year, I'd sign him to a decent sized deal no problems.

Maybe even a Gerald Henderson, or Gary Neal. Demarre Carrol, Paul Millsap and Rajon Rondo will be unrestricted aswell.

I can find 100's of scenarios that i prefer over giving Hayward 63 mil, tbh, some of it might take 1 year of patience, but the Tank would strengthen as a result too.
Click to expand...

I know how good Brook is, he just hasn't been healthy in years. Teams know that risk. 5-74-18 are his regular season games in the last 3 seasons. If he plays 82 on a high level, he'll get paid.
If he plays 75 on a mediocre level(for his standards) he may be better off confirming his durability in 15/16.

Also all of the underlined guys are a reason why next year it won't such a free agency gangbang party like this summer. Way too many productive but not max guys when you consider the overall capspace that teams have.

I also like that match at the deadline strategy by Lindsey. Shows guys going after Burks: Don't **** with Utah in RFA or we stick it right back to you.

This may set the tone for Kanter + Burks next summer.

Didn't answer about Ariza since there's no way to speculate from both sides. You blame injuries. I don't like him because in the injury free time he's been unproductive as well from my POV. That's an argument that the next 3 years will answer. Veterans with changing productions are hard to read.
 
Another question... (I am a true novice at the nuances of all CBA)

Can we use our space to extend a player or players with a heavily front-loaded contract?
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Nice try, but let's face it this is all speculation at this point.
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Most of it is salary cap maths. And then you can make a point that all the teams may favor unrestricted guys like Dragic, Rondo, Green and whatever to not limit their cap space for 72 hours to only go home empty handed when there's 20 guys available.
 
PKM said:
Another question... (I am a true novice at the nuances of all CBA)

Can we use our space to re-sign a player or players with a heavily front-loaded contract?
Click to expand...

Only 7.5% in- and decreases allowed. So we can't do something like: year 1: $20M year 2: $1M
 
I don't think it's fair to call Alec a non-shooter. If you ignore his 9 heaves from beyond midcourt last season, he shot 37% from 3, including a team best 42% on catch-and-shoots (per NBA.com's player tracking data) and 43.2% on spot-ups (per synergysports). The volume isn't there, but I think that's more a function of his on-ball role off the bench.
 
PKM said:
Another question... (I am a true novice at the nuances of all CBA)

Can we use our space to extend a player or players with a heavily front-loaded contract?
Click to expand...

I've asked exactly this before but apparently it's only the 4.5% increase/decrease with the new CBA. (old was 7,5 iirc)

But there are this poison pill contracts teams made with the new CBA(Aşık contract) but I don't know if it works reverse way(front-loaded).
 
BTP said:
2018 if development is better than anticipated at earliest barring some contributing veteran additions.



I know how good Brook is, he just hasn't been healthy in years. Teams know that risk. 5-74-18 are his regular season games in the last 3 seasons. If he plays 82 on a high level, he'll get paid.
If he plays 75 on a mediocre level(for his standards) he may be better off confirming his durability in 15/16.

Also all of the underlined guys are a reason why next year it won't such a free agency gangbang party like this summer. Way too many productive but not max guys when you consider the overall capspace that teams have.

I also like that match at the deadline strategy by Lindsey. Shows guys going after Burks: Don't **** with Utah in RFA or we stick it right back to you.
Click to expand...

Theres other big name players that i didnt list. Including very interesting Restricted players Kahwi Leonard and Klay Thompson. Nic Vucevic will get paid big-time hes restricted too.

Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Rudy Gay.... dare i say.. Al Jefferson

Arron Afflalo is Unrestricted, so is Jeremy Lin

Kemba Walker is restricted, so is Jimmy Butler, Ricky Rubio, Patrick Beverley, Draymond Green and Brandon Knight,

I dont think next summer will be the best market for Enes to fish for a big deal, It looks like there's a ton of quality bigs. I wouldnt be suprised to see Roy Hibbert and David West opt out if they have big seasons also.

Also it doesnt matter if those underlined guys arent Max worthy, they dont need to get paid the max.

I'd much rather have Trevor Ariza here for 3 years 29 mil this year sign Wes Mathews next year, all for the Price of Gordon.

Like i said i can come up with 100's of 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 scenarios of bundles of players id rather have than Hayward at 4 years 63 mil
 
GVC said:
I don't think it's fair to call Alec a non-shooter. If you ignore his 9 heaves from beyond midcourt last season, he shot 37% from 3, including a team best 42% on catch-and-shoots (per NBA.com's player tracking data) and 43.2% on spot-ups (per synergysports). The volume isn't there, but I think that's more a function of his on-ball role off the bench.
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He's not elite that's my point. Good %s on a small sample size aren't worth too much in the league. He increases his numbers furthers and triples attempts, then I call him a good shooter. Now he's an opportunistic shooter. Can we agree on that?
 
Enes CanTear You Apart said:
I've asked exactly this before but apparently it's only the 4.5% increase/decrease with the new CBA. (old was 7,5 iirc)

But there are this poison pill contracts teams made with the new CBA(Aşık contract) but I don't know if it works reverse way(front-loaded).
Click to expand...

4.5% for guys you hand an offer sheet. 7.5% for guys you retain with bird rights.

Poison Pill works for guys that enter restricted free agency early. They're prohibited to earn more than the best earning rookies during years 3 and 4. Don't know exactly the rules. If it's: "You can't earn more overall during your first 4 years than the #1 pick of that year" or if it's "you can't earn more than the #1 pick of that draft class in any year before year 4".
Gilbert Arenas provision is the name of the rule. Asik was RFA after year 2. That's why he was eligible.
 
PointGod_AlecBurks said:
Theres other big name players that i didnt list.

Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Rudy Gay.... dare i say.. Al Jefferson,

I dont this will be the best market for Enes to fish for a big deal, looks like theres a ton of quality bigs.

Also it doesnt matter if those underlined guys arent Max worthy, they dont need to get paid the max.

I'd much rather have Trevor Ariza here for 3 years 29 mil this year sign Wes Mathews next year, all for the Price of Gordon.

Like i said i can come up with 100's of 2 for 1 or 3 for one scenarios of bundles of players id rather have than Hayward at 4 years 63 mil
Click to expand...

I simply have a different perspective. A 90 year old Ariza and Matthews won't help us in 2018-2023. Gordon Hayward will be 28-33 by then. Even if his deal is ****ty now, in 2017 and 2018 free agency doesn't project to become such a mess. And a 27/28 year old guy is getting paid value for his prime, not upside and restricted free agent leverage money.
 
BTP said:
4.5% for guys you hand an offer sheet. 7.5% for guys you retain with bird rights.

Poison Pill works for guys that enter restricted free agency early. They're prohibited to earn more than the best earning rookies during years 3 and 4. Don't know exactly the rules. If it's: "You can't earn more overall during your first 4 years than the #1 pick of that year" or if it's "you can't earn more than the #1 pick of that draft class in any year before year 4".
Gilbert Arenas provision is the name of the rule. Asik was RFA after year 2. That's why he was eligible.
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OK, found my expert.

How about signing bonuses? Do they count on the whole contract or can we give it in the first year, for instance?
 
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