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What Utah going to the Pac does to rivalries

The Thriller said:
Why was Gunther all bent out of shape over harmon's comments? What did he say that was so out of line?

https://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5298238
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He basically said the only reason BYU didn't get it was because of religious discrimination. The fact of the matter is, it's BYU fans who claim BYU should have been considered almost based entirely on the religious aspect. They claim they have some mythical national following because of the religious aspect.

Anyway, they asked him why Utah was a good choice for the PAC and he went on a rant about how BYU was a better choice but they were left out because of the religious discrimination. That's why a lot of Ute fans think he's a jackass.
 
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SaltyDawg said:
He basically said the only reason BYU didn't get it was because oif religious discrimination. The fact of the matter is, it's BYU fans who claim BYU should have been considered almost based entirely on the religious aspect. They claim they have some mythical national following because of the religious aspect.

Anyway, they asked him why Utah was a good choice for the PAC and he went on a rant about how BYU was a better choice but they were left out because of the religious dicrimination. That's why a lot of Ute fans think he's a jackass.
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What do you expect? The Pac is pretty liberal. I mean you have the LA schools & Berkley. BYU can't be surprised they didn't want to align with them. As a Utah fan I would love to see BYU get an invite into the Big 12 where I think they would be a better fit. Hell they have had Baylor in their conference with little problems (minus the Dave Bliss thing but that wasn't a religious issue).
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
What do you expect? The Pac is pretty liberal. I mean you have the LA schools & Berkley. BYU can't be surprised they didn't want to align with them. As a Utah fan I would love to see BYU get an invite into the Big 12 where I think they would be a better fit. Hell they have had Baylor in their conference with little problems (minus the Dave Bliss thing but that wasn't a religious issue).
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All of that may be true, but it still doesn't justify a supposedly unbiased and professional reporter going on national tv and claiming that BYU was a better choice than Utah and religious discrimination is the only reason they weren't chosen.
 
SaltyDawg said:
All of that may be true, but it still doesn't justify a supposedly unbiased and professional reporter going on national tv and claiming that BYU was a better choice than Utah and religious discrimination is the only reason they weren't chosen.
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Well anyone who follows local sports enough knows Dick Harmon is a BYU honk. Not surprising. I don't think he was totally wrong either. I think part of it was religion but not completely, and part of it was they were not that much bigger of a cash cow than the U to justify just dealing with their religious status. Hell do you think they would have accepted Notre Dame? Of course they would have.

BYU has a great tradition and is every bit deserving to play with a big conference and I hope they do.
 
Yeah, that was a little bit shocking to me. Certainly an eyebrow raiser to me.

I do think BYU would be a good fit for the Big XII. Wouldn't upset me at all if they were invited there.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
Well anyone who follows local sports enough knows Dick Harmon is a BYU honk. Not surprising. I don't think he was totally wrong either. I think part of it was religion but not completely, and part of it was they were not that much bigger of a cash cow than the U to justify just dealing with their religious status. Hell do you think they would have accepted Notre Dame? Of course they would have.

BYU has a great tradition and is every bit deserving to play with a big conference and I hope they do.
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#1: Yeah, we all know he's a BYU homer. But the people in other states watching on ESPN don't know that.
#2: If you take religion out of it, BYU is a nobody. So for him to say religion is the only reason they weren't considered, when religion is actually the only reason they would be considered, is wrong.
#3: BYU does not meet the academic requirements of the PAC. And their athletics aren't big enough to overlook that.
#4: Not playing on Sundays is a big deal too. It's not religious discrimination either. It doesn't matter what religion they are, if they won't play on Sunday it is going to be a problem for any big time conference.

So considering that Utah does meet the PAC's academic requirements, and has had much better football and basketball programs on a national scale, it's ridiculous to say it was discrimination keeping BYU out.

BYU's biggest accomplishment on the football field in the last 15 years was what- a Vegas Bowl victory? Their biggest basketball victory was a first round NCA tounrnament victory? In that same time, Utah has been to the final 4, the elite 8, and several sweet 16s in basketball, and in football they won 2 BCS bowl games and went undefeated twice. There is no question who has made more noise in both football and basketball.

So for some jackass to claim that it was religious discrimination on national tv is ridiculous.
 
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No one has mentioned (that i know of) the battle for recruits in this state. And I'm not just talking about Utah having the edge against BYU.

Harvey Unga was originally committed to Utah. Then he saw how things were unsettled during the Meyer/Whit transition and went to BYU. However, today, think Harvey would change his mind? A steady football program with an automatic BCS conference? Easy choice.

A year or so ago, the Pac-10 picked off two offensive linemen from Cottonwood (Martinez) and Timpview (X-filho spelled his name wrong... he was their starting left tackle this year as a true freshman). that really good USC fullback (forgot his name) was from Utah. This year the PG quarterback was reportedly going to Stanford and a Timpview Safety was headed to Notre Dame. I'm sure i'm probably missing a few WRs and RBs from Alta, Cottonwood, Bingham, etc. In fact, one went to either Cal or Oregon St (can't remember). He was that really short but quick RB from Cottonwood. Anyone else remember him?

Now true, some of these guys maybe would still go to those other PAC-10 schools. But perhaps fewer athletes in this state will leave this state to play in the Pac-10 now that UofU is now a part of the conference.

this is huge for the University of Utah.
 
SaltyDawg said:
#1: Yeah, we all know he's a BYU homer. But the people in other states watching on ESPN don't know that.
#2: If you take religion out of it, BYU is a nobody. So for him to say religion is the only reason they weren't considered, when religion is actually the only reason they would be considered, is wrong.
#3: BYU does not meet the academic requirements of the PAC. And their athletics aren't big enough to overlook that.
#4: Not playing on Sundays is a big deal too. It's not religious discrimination either. It doesn't matter what religion they are, if they won't play on Sunday it is going to be a problem for any big time conference.

So considering that Utah does meet the PAC's academic requirements, and has had much better football and basketball programs on a national scale, it's ridiculous to say it was discrimination keeping BYU out.

BYU's biggest accomplishment on the football field in the last 15 years was what- a Vegas Bowl victory? Their biggest basketball victory was a first round NCA tounrnament victory? In that same time, Utah has been to the final 4, the elite 8, and several sweet 16s in basketball, and in football they won 2 BCS bowl games and went undefeated twice. There is no question who has made more noise in both football and basketball.

So for some jackass to claim that it was religious discrimination on national tv is ridiculous.
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Not that I totally disagree, but just to play devil's advocate:

If you take religion out of it the U of U wouldn't be what it is either. Hell SLC wouldn't be. But correct BYU wouldn't exist if their were no Mormon church. But where would the U be without it?

I never quite got the academic standard argument. Is it because they integrate religion into their courses down at BYU or the fact they don't have huge research institutes like the U? Academically speaking I believe it is still tougher to get into BYU.

The Sunday issue would be easily solved IF BYU brought in enough money. What major college event is on a Sunday? An occasional basketball conference tournament final? They could move that to a Saturday night. I don't really buy that a huge obstacle.
 
The Thriller said:
No one has mentioned (that i know of) the battle for recruits in this state. And I'm not just talking about Utah having the edge against BYU.

Harvey Unga was originally committed to Utah. Then he saw how things were unsettled during the Meyer/Whit transition and went to BYU. However, today, think Harvey would change his mind? A steady football program with an automatic BCS conference? Easy choice.

A year or so ago, the Pac-10 picked off two offensive linemen from Cottonwood (Martinez) and Timpview (X-filho spelled his name wrong... he was their starting left tackle this year as a true freshman). that really good USC fullback (forgot his name) was from Utah. This year the PG quarterback was reportedly going to Stanford and a Timpview Safety was headed to Notre Dame. I'm sure i'm probably missing a few WRs and RBs from Alta, Cottonwood, Bingham, etc. In fact, one went to either Cal or Oregon St (can't remember). He was that really short but quick RB from Cottonwood. Anyone else remember him?

Now true, some of these guys maybe would still go to those other PAC-10 schools. But perhaps fewer athletes in this state will leave this state to play in the Pac-10 now that UofU is now a part of the conference.

this is huge for the University of Utah.
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Ngata was a Utah product from Highland I think. He went to Oregon and now plays for the Ravens. Utah may have had a shot at a guy like that.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
Not that I totally disagree, but just to play devil's advocate:

If you take religion out of it the U of U wouldn't be what it is either. Hell SLC wouldn't be. But correct BYU wouldn't exist if their were no Mormon church. But where would the U be without it?

I never quite got the academic standard argument. Is it because they integrate religion into their courses down at BYU or the fact they don't have huge research institutes like the U? Academically speaking I believe it is still tougher to get into BYU.

The Sunday issue would be easily solved IF BYU brought in enough money. What major college event is on a Sunday? An occasional basketball conference tournament final? They could move that to a Saturday night. I don't really buy that a huge obstacle.
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1: Without religion the U would be right where they are- a state school. It's not the U claiming to be a national powerhouse because of mormons everywhere rooting for them.

2: BYU is neither a major research university, nor a member of the AAU. Utah is not an AAU member, but they are a major research university.

3: The Pac 10 women's basketball tournament has the championship game on Sunday. They wouldn't change it because the men play theirs on Saturday. And it's in the Staples Center, where 2 NBA teams and a pro hockey team also play their home games, so they can't just dictate dates or decide to do it on Monday instead. It's more of an issue than any big time conference would want to deal with.

In any case, there are some pretty clear reasons why Utah would be chosen over BYU. And again, the accomplishments on the basketball court and on the football field over the last 15 years have been much bigger for Utah than BYU. Plus, I'm sure most fans of PAC schools would much rather take a road trip to SLC than Provo, but that is probably not that big of a consideration. Still though, for that BYU homer to say it was only because of religion is ridiculous.

It was not BYU being a mormon school that kept them out. On the contrary, if they weren't a mormon school, they would have no business even pretending they deserved to be considered. Their whole argument is basically "We have a bigger fanbase nationwide because mormons everywhere root for BYU..." So BYU homers are basically saying, "We're better than Utah because we're mormon..." and then at the same time (at least this Harmon jackass is) saying, "If they don't consider that we're mormon they would have to say BYU is a better choice than Utah..."
 
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Great analysis Salty. BTW, BYU season ticket holder swapping for Utah when they go on sale later in July. I'm a fan of both but my 1A and 1B just switched.
 
Jason said:
Great analysis Salty. BTW, BYU season ticket holder swapping for Utah when they go on sale later in July. I'm a fan of both but my 1A and 1B just switched.
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I expect them to sell just about all the seats as season tickets. Maybe not quite all of them, but I bet there won't be too many seats left by the time the season starts.

Supposedly stadium expansion is being discussed right now. Hopefully we'll see it within the next couple years or so.

What will be interesting to see is what happens when BYU and Utah are both scheduled for home games at the same time.

I don't think it has happened very often (if at all) while they were both plaing in the MWC. But with them in different conferences, they might get scheduled at the same time.
 
Utah is more deserving of a bcs conference invite right now but fact of the matter is BYU would have been in a BCS conference a long time ago if it was not for the fact that they are affiliated with a religion that most of America does not like. BYU is also limited in growth of their football team because of that affiliation. Utah does have the ability(not that I think they will) to become a perennial national championship type football team. The mormon aspect is a huge deal and that is the reason BYU is not in a better conference and probably never will be. BYU fans are very passionate and will continue to cheer for their team and probably still have better attendance rates at games over the next 20 years. Utah fans in general (not all of you salty) are fair weather fans. BYU fans are more loyal but also less knowledgeable about football(once again not all of you).
 
Raspberry Delight said:
I bet KatieMCR is pleased as punch that you've come out.
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Why should I care about what KatieMCR thinks of me? We probably have different opinions on some controversial views. Boo freaking hoo....Also A+ on trying to change the subject of your depresssion about Utah going to the Pac-10.
 
Bronco70 said:
Last season, Utah barely lost (on the road) to the eventual PAC 10 champ. You care to back your claim with a list of four?
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I never said Utah would finish 5th in the PAC. I just said you're delusional if you think they'd win the championship. You really think you could beat 9 out of the current PAC 10 teams this upcoming year? That's what it takes.
Hell, Utah won't even win the MWC this year, and you think you'd win the PAC 10?
 
Let me sum up why the rivalry will live on in a much simpler way than has been stated in this thread (at least I think so, I just skimmed through it). The rivalry will continue because Utah and BYU despise one another and so do the fans of each team.
 
honz said:
Let me sum up why the rivalry will live on in a much simpler way than has been stated in this thread (at least I think so, I just skimmed through it). The rivalry will continue because Utah and BYU despise one another and so do the fans of each team.
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Compelling and rich.
 
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