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Utah Jazz in desperate need of long term coaching solution

Last season after first 24 games of having real full time point guard jazz go 11-13. This season every starter is playing as good (Burke) or more better (Hayward and Favors much improvement, Kanter is most improved in offense, Burks is same or better all around stats).

Snyder is clear downgrade from Corbin based on results and needs to be replaced asap. The defense still sucks and the games are no fun to watch. We already have posters telling they no longer watch games and ESA looks empty.


#NoMoreRookieCoaches
 
No trolling, I love Quin and have high hopes but I've started to wonder if he's the answer. We can use the "it's a new system" excuse all we want but plenty of first year coaches have helped make dramatic improvements on the defensive end pretty much right away. Quin has not. And it's not as if we're totally void of defensive talent. Favors, Hayward, Gobert, Exum. These are solid defenders. We can blame Kanter and Burke all we want but Thibs got Chicago to become a defensive stalwart pretty much immediately with Boozer logging major minutes.
 
The defensive struggles are certainly concerning and the area that needs the most attention imo. But its only been 24 games. Way to early in a rookie coaches career to say he is or is not the answer.
 
Lets not pretend like we have a great "real full time point guard" right now. Just for comparison...
John Lucas last year in the first 24 games - 33% FG, 33% 3P FG, 78% FT
Trey Burke this year in the first 24 games - 37% FG, 31% 3P FG, 78% FT
At least John Lucas shot only 118 shots in that period... while Trey has shot 288 shots on those %s this season...

Trey is clearly better at organizing the team, but lets have a bit of a reality check about what the level of our current PG is...
 
Lets not pretend like we have a great "real full time point guard" right now. Just for comparison...
John Lucas last year in the first 24 games - 33% FG, 33% 3P FG, 78% FT
Trey Burke this year in the first 24 games - 37% FG, 31% 3P FG, 78% FT
At least John Lucas shot only 118 shots in that period... while Trey has shot 288 shots on those %s this season...

Trey is clearly better at organizing the team, but lets have a bit of a reality check about what the level of our current PG is...

Can you find a couple of stats that shows Trey is a worse defender too?
 
No trolling, I love Quin and have high hopes but I've started to wonder if he's the answer. We can use the "it's a new system" excuse all we want but plenty of first year coaches have helped make dramatic improvements on the defensive end pretty much right away. Quin has not. And it's not as if we're totally void of defensive talent. Favors, Hayward, Gobert, Exum. These are solid defenders. We can blame Kanter and Burke all we want but Thibs got Chicago to become a defensive stalwart pretty much immediately with Boozer logging major minutes.

Quin's biggest flaw is that he does not play the right players. Burke has no business starting any longer and until that change is made we will be terrible defensively. In general he needs to shake things up.
 
I love Quin Snyder. I'm perfectly happy with where the team is right now and the direction that the Jazz are heading. I think that he's an extremely intelligent guy who will need to build his roster a lot more for future success. I like him a helluva lot more than I thought I would when they hired him.

The future of this team is Gordon Hayward, Dante Exum, Rudy Gobert and whoever they draft or trade for to add to that triumvirate this offseason. I'm encouraged that the Jazz still have a boatload of assets and some cap flexibility (although not as much as I'd like) to build their roster moving forward. Derrick Favors, Alec Burks, Enes Kanter, Rodney Hood and even Trey Burke (who I doubt fits long-term) are all young enough to contribute as complementary players depending on who they value and how much they cost. This roster is not built to win now. The young guys need to learn how to play together. The Jazz still need a #1 guy to be competitive. I'm not sure if that guy is already on the roster (Hawyard, Gobert or Exum are probably the best bets for that) or are yet to be acquired this offseason or next.

What I do know is that rebuilding takes time. I think that DL and Snyder will build a winner if they're allowed to do it their way. I have faith in both of them. Knee jerk reactions in major decisions like that lead to becoming the Kings or the Timberwolves. The Jazz owners have proven that they're patient and loyal to a fault. I'm encouraged that this means they'll give their top guys a chance to fulfil their vision for the Jazz without having to worry about knee jerk reactions.
 
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Quin's biggest flaw is that he does not play the right players. Burke has no business starting any longer and until that change is made we will be terrible defensively. In general he needs to shake things up.

I'd give it at least til the new year. Probably even late January. I think Burke stinks but he is only in his second year and we should give him time to break out of the funk...with I think is perpetual.
 
Quin's biggest flaw is that he does not play the right players. Burke has no business starting any longer and until that change is made we will be terrible defensively. In general he needs to shake things up.

Quins biggest flaws are he has no defensive identity and Jazz are dead last in points in paint. Quin Snyder does not belief in layups. He wants play with the pass around perimeter then take long two or contested three. He is a college coach he has a college system. It might work with 40 second shot clock against inferior defenders but it will not against elite of world.
 
Let's compare position by position:

PG: 2014: Burke/Exum vs. 2013: JLIII/Exum and Garrett. I'd say this is a wash. Burke started off the season shooting as poorly as Tinsley/JLIII. He's improved to about the same level as last year. TBH, Garrett was better than Exum has been. But let's call this EVEN (with the hope Exum eventually breaks out).

Wings: 2014: Burks, Hayward, Hood/Ingles vs. 2013: Burks, Hayward, Jefferson. Hayward playing better. Burks perhaps slightly better, although his scoring is down. But Jefferson >>>>>>>>>> Hood + Ingles. Not even close. RJ shot 45%/41%. He played 27 mins/per, which is about what Hood and Ingles get combined. Do I think Hood will be MUCH better than RJ at some point? Yes, definitely. But he missed several games and is struggling with his shooting. Also don't forget the Jazz had Marvin Williams playing SF for the first part of the season. Marvin >>>>>>>> Ingles. Big advantage 2013!

Bigs: 2014: Favors, Kanter, Gobert, Booker vs. 2013: Favors, Kanter, Gobert, Marvin Williams, Evans. OK, a little difficult to compare because roles have changed.
a. Kanter now starts but has been pushed outside.
b. Gobert now gets PT every game. Last season only 45 games and less than 10 mins/per
c. Evans is no longer a rotation player.

Favors and Gobert have certainly improved. Kanter IS improving, but his role has changed and he has really struggled adjusting, especially in the early part of the season. Marvin provided the Jazz with outside shooting once he was moved over from the 3 to the 4. I'd take Marvin over Booker. Trevor is tough, but doesn't provide spacing. As an overall group, I think 2013 was better and more versatile. 2014 has good potential, but we've seen Gobert start to emerge right as Booker has slumped. And again, we have no shooters. I'd call this 2013 for now, but could tip to 2014 as Gobert keeps improving and if/when Kanter or Booker can give Utah some 3PT shooting. Let's be generous and say EVEN.

Really, what it comes down to is youth. RJ and Marvin were big parts of the team last year. Jefferson, at least offensively, revived his career. We've replaced those vets with Booker and rookies. I'm not surprised the overall record is about even. Last season the schedule was even harder to begin with than this year, which meant it was then a little easier afterwards. Given the team we have (young bench), Exum and Hood not contributing much, and Trey not improving at all, I'm not surprised Utah is on track to again win 25 games. And that can't be put entirely on Quin's head. DL could have given him a stronger team. Then again, I think the whole idea of a rebuild is to develop your existing talent and go for a couple of picks in the upper half of the lottery, not sign mid-level vets as band-aids in an attempt to win 35-40 games. Maybe that challenges for the playoffs in the EC; it sure doesn't in the WC.
 
He also has no clue how to utilize Jeremy Evans. Sloan found a way to use Evans special talents by three times the minutes his rookie season. This dope cannot find anything with five years more refining by Jeremy?

I can say same for Booker. He is a monster but only time scores is when team needs bailout. Quin uses him wrong on defense too. Why he guards Nene in post when Gobert is on court? Stupid.
 
Boobs in desperate need of a mastectomy
 
This is crazy. Blaming the coach is such an easy solution, which is why fans and front offices do it. We just don't have the talent level. We're not better than most of the teams in the league. Our guys are playing hard and even well--in spurts (though they also play awful in spurts). We have a starting point guard who, no disrespect, I'm still rooting for him and like him, but very well could be out of the league within the next five years. We have Kanter and Favors, interesting pieces on their own, maybe, but clearly just cannot play defensively together. We have Dante Exum, who is very promising, but at least three years away. Rudy Gobert could be a dominant defensive center, but he's not there yet. Gordon Hayward is a really nice player, and he'd be a great second or third option. Alec Burks could be a sixth man, and potentially an above average SG (best case scenario), but he has a lot to figure out.

Who else is worth mentioning?

Hood has flashes, knows how play the game, but he hasn't been able to get settled.

Booker is a solid backup.

That's it. Those are the piece we have. Hire the most experienced coach you want--look at Detroit. It won't make a difference. We're just not good enough and probably won't be any time soon. It's smart to have a young, promising coach with a young, rebuilding team. We've got to grow something long term. We need a really good draft pick this year. Lose, lose, lose.

I remember back when people wanted the vets traded away so we could tank and start rebuilding. No more middle of the pack teams, we said. But I don't think people were prepared for the reality of being bad. I remember threads asking if Utah fans could handle having multiple losing seasons.

Patience. If you can't handle the losing, check out of the team for a while. Otherwise, enjoy the NBA. The West is bonkers and the WC playoffs should be a blast this year, even without the Jazz. But please, don't **** with the plan. Just let it happen. If you can't watch don't, but this team needs to be bad for another season or two. It's the reality.

SUPPORT THE TANK
 
For the OP, and others if you want a laugh...

My wife comes home from a craft show and tells me about a vinyl sign a lady was trying to sell: "I love you with all of my Boobs. I would have said heart, but my Boobs are bigger."

Can't really hang that in the front room where the home teachers might see it, and it might be a little awkward in the family room with the kids friends or at thanksgiving. So why would anyone buy a sign like that?

Also, Quin Snyder is fine, the jazz suck because DOL says they have to suck or else it is skipping steps. Look at the LA Clippers, they built things right, they didn't skip the steps of sucking for 20 years before they got a franchise player. Jazz just need to follow their lead. Don't skip steps! Go hang that on your wall.
 
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];954813 said:
Quins biggest flaws are he has no defensive identity and Jazz are dead last in points in paint. Quin Snyder does not belief in layups. He wants play with the pass around perimeter then take long two or contested three. He is a college coach he has a college system. It might work with 40 second shot clock against inferior defenders but it will not against elite of world.
Completely wrong on that assumption. Quin HATES long 2's.
Just watch games. The offense is getting players plenty of open shots. The Jazz just aren't hitting them. They also have NO idea how to use screens. I can't believe how many times I've seen either a poorly set screen or a good one in which the guard just keeps dribbling in front or goes the wrong way. The problem is NOT with the system. The problem is with personnel. Jazz can't get an inside game because no one respects our shooters. And for good reason. If I were a coach I'd say the best defense against Utah is just to give them anything they want outside of 25 feet. Maybe put a hand up when Gordon shoots. But guard against penetration by Alec and shut down anything inside to Kanter or Favors.
 
For the OP, and others if you want a laugh...

My wife comes home from a craft show and tells me about a vinyl sign a lady was trying to sell: "I love you with all of my Boobs. I would have said heart, but my Boobs are bigger."

Can't really hang that in the front room where the home teachers might see it, and it might be a little awkward in the family room with the kids friends or at thanksgiving. So why would anyone buy a sign like that?

Also, Quin Snyder is fine, the jazz suck because DOL says they have to suck or else it is skipping steps. Look at the LA Clippers, they built things right, they didn't skip the steps of sucking for 20 years before they got a franchise player. Jazz just need to follow their lead. Don't skip steps! Go hang that on your wall.

I would totally buy that sign, but change boobs for 'cojones'. In other news, this is a good candidate for LT2014 (Lamest Thread)
 
For the OP, and others if you want a laugh...

My wife comes home from a craft show and tells me about a vinyl sign a lady was trying to sell: "I love you with all of my Boobs. I would have said heart, but my Boobs are bigger."

Can't really hang that in the front room where the home teachers might see it, and it might be a little awkward in the family room with the kids friends or at thanksgiving. So why would anyone buy a sign like that?

Also, Quin Snyder is fine, the jazz suck because DOL says they have to suck or else it is skipping steps. Look at the LA Clippers, they built things right, they didn't skip the steps of sucking for 20 years before they got a franchise player. Jazz just need to follow their lead. Don't skip steps! Go hang that on your wall.

They also had Stern gift wrap CP3 for them, first vetoing a trade to the Lakers, then someone having the Clippers know exactly what to bid for a backup PG so they could trade Gordon.
 
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