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This made me kinda sad today...

First, I feel I made a mistake in both judgement and interpretation where this event was concerned. Here is CNN's updated account of what happened. It sounds like an accurate account, now that I've seen a lot more then just the under 4 minute clip that started the whole wave of outrage:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/us/maga-hat-teens-native-american-second-video/index.html

Second, I've either listened to or read about 5 interviews of Nathan Phillips. In the interview in the immediate aftermath, I found his raw emotion to be sincere. I don't think he was lying at all. He claimed to be scared. Was his fear justified based on the reactions of the students to his presence? I'm not in his skin, but I thought he gave his honest impression. As he walked forward, the kids parted a bit, until Phillips encountered Nick Sandmann, who simply stood his ground smiling.

Here is the complete statement by Nick Sandmann. It's worth a read. I find it impressive. I find it credible, believable, sincere. And that causes some self reflection on my part. Sandman states his smile was really just to disarm Phillips, to show him he had no intention of escalating a potential ugly encounter. Yet in the short clip that launched the outrage, I saw that smile as smug arrogance. So maybe it's me, seeing what I want to see. What I saw as smug arrogance could instead be seen as a calm, disarming smile:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/20/us/covington-kentucky-student-statement/index.html

So what did I see? A bunch of MAGA hatters harassing a Native American elder. Looking at the kids again, in that short clip, some might have actually been getting into the chanting. Some might have been caught up by the chanting. Not so hard. I've been to many powwows, I enjoy the chanting and dancing. Some of the kids may have been laughing at and mocking Nathan Phillips. That could very well be, and likely was, the case. But they're kids, and I've already made mistakes. No harm was done. I believe Phillips emotions were genuine, but these kids were exposed to insults and taunts from the black Israelites. Maybe the kids should have walked away then and there. But they didn't, they responded to the black Israelites, who, btw, were verbally assaulting the indigenous group, as well as the students.

The lesson for me. I saw what I wanted to see. Or, maybe to cut myself more slack, I saw what fulfilled my expectations. I expected a group of MAGA hatters to harass minorities. So that's what I saw.

I don't know to what degree the media is at fault here. They went with that short clip. But, they did take a deeper look, and revised their analysis. They acted to correct the record.

I think, in part, the incident exposed what hyper partisanship can do. I don't want to make more mistakes in judgement and interpretation, as I feel I did here. I've got to be more careful. I will never renounce my opposition to everything Trump stands for, but I've got to let what happened here be a lesson for me.

Edit: some might find this Washington Post article illuminating:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...78f092-1ceb-11e9-9145-3f74070bbdb9_story.html

there is hope for you yet,.. even though i think you are a filthy global socialist. you are beginning to see the light! i respect you manning up and apologize. i still think in general your views are downright evil and lead to mass death and starvation

unlike that filthy ****ing global socialist thriller!
 
Of the three "members of the global socialist movement formerly called the national socialist movement" I see posting, two have admitted they were mistaken. One doesn't really care and is more invested in the narrative. But, to Hack's credit, he actually was on the first page assuming this was true and not condoning it to begin with before changing realizing it was much ado about nothing.

fixed it

and ooh yeah the black ****rtard ****erlites should stop appropriating my culture and bugger the **** off!

naah just kidding those tards can do whatever the **** they want! as any of you know they make a mockery out of judaism
 
Yeah I don’t agree with that.

I think the added context of the African American protest group and the inflammatory rhetoric they used sheds new light on this issue. Calling those students racist slurs and claiming that they’d harvest the one black student’s organs is inexcusable. If anything, those people were the ones who instigated it and deserve the most criticism now that more information has been added.

I do think this opens the door for an interesting discussion:

1. What is an all boys school doing at a pro life rally? Do we seriously not see the irony here?

2. What role do MAGA hats have in provoking reaction? I know of many people who consider them to be the new hood. You don’t wear that around DC without expecting a fight. What role did the students chanting and ripping off their shirts doing the HAKA have in this?

3. Where were the adults? This whole dispute didn’t just suddenly occur. It went on for minutes and minutes. Where were the chaperones? You’re going to let students from your school tear off clothes and do the Haka in front of the Lincoln memorial while exchanging racist rhetoric with African Americans and Native American Indians?

I admittedly have more empathy for smirking student kid and less for the adult chaperones now that I’ve seen the other videos. He was in a large group and when the Native American came up to him he saw it as a challenge and when surrounded by his peers he acted like most young men will act. But had adults been there this whole incident could’ve been descalated.
this libtard got me on ignore, aka his digital concentration/re= education camp

but still will explain it
1. since you see everything from identity politics, i will put it in that they have every right to because half the people being murdered by abortion clinics are male! so males have every right to protest/rally/fight for other males!
(just ot sow you how retarded you are when it comes to identity politcis. acording to your world logic. no white person should have been allowed to fight for the end of slavery, the end of jim crowe laws.) becuase they where not black!
see how ****ing stupid your identity politics logic is.
you might disagree that a fetus is a live. that is our disagreement. you think it is a lump of cels and can be terminated. we think it is a lvie and doing so is MURDER and murder is wrong. just like slavery was wrong, jim crowe laws where wrong. so no matter sex race or otherr identity poltiics category we have every right to fight/rally/protest
SO ****OFF!

2. ok lets stop people from wearing maga hats. but then we got to be fair. no more Hope and or change shirts. no more i'm with her shirts. no more JEB lawn yards. we gotta be fair. if we ban 1 campaign slogan/logo marketing **** we gotta ban em ALL!

3. lawlz when i was 16 years old i took my lil motorcycle and went everywhere. those where the days no helicopter parents. i did some ****ed up ****. litterally break the law and such. i was jsut an average teenger. but what this tteenager did is a big nothing burger


there you have it answer to your 3 questions!
 
Honestly, hearing an interview with Nathan Phillips on NPR this morning I don't even really consider him sincere.

The interviewer was awesome and completely respectful, but asked a number of questions that ultimately got Phillips to say that he assumed when he saw a large group of white MAGA hat wearing teens in a confrontation with 4 black men that the black men were the victims and he needed to "do something." I honestly think he had every intention of creating the kind of situation we were initially presented with. That's my gut feeling after listening to 4 different interviews with Phillips. The NPR interview sussed out a few key details from his story that none of the others did. The interviewer was exceptionally skillful.

I'm glad that the entire story came out relatively quickly. Unfortunately not quickly enough that the narrative of snotty little arrogant MAGA hat wearing teen disrespected a Native American Vietnam vet for the fun of it, that story is still spreading. But this is an example of how truth is supposed to work. We saw an incomplete picture and made reasonable conclusions based on that. Then we got a more complete picture and changed our conclusions based on that. The "fake news" showed that they are not fake, and that they present the information they have, albeit from their biased perspective, but they do not hide from truth.

If the alternate reality crowd could learn a lesson here then this would all have been well worth it.
 
Someone had asked my opinion on this the first day and I avoided the question. I have a friend who won't comment on news stories for a couple of days because he likes to make sure he's heard all sides. Not a bad policy to adopt. I felt like there was more to the story than initially presented. All could have handled it better, but it ultimately shouldn't have been much of a story.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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Honestly, hearing an interview with Nathan Phillips on NPR this morning I don't even really consider him sincere.

The interviewer was awesome and completely respectful, but asked a number of questions that ultimately got Phillips to say that he assumed when he saw a large group of white MAGA hat wearing teens in a confrontation with 4 black men that the black men were the victims and he needed to "do something." I honestly think he had every intention of creating the kind of situation we were initially presented with. That's my gut feeling after listening to 4 different interviews with Phillips. The NPR interview sussed out a few key details from his story that none of the others did. The interviewer was exceptionally skillful.

I'm glad that the entire story came out relatively quickly. Unfortunately not quickly enough that the narrative of snotty little arrogant MAGA hat wearing teen disrespected a Native American Vietnam vet for the fun of it, that story is still spreading. But this is an example of how truth is supposed to work. We saw an incomplete picture and made reasonable conclusions based on that. Then we got a more complete picture and changed our conclusions based on that. The "fake news" showed that they are not fake, and that they present the information they have, albeit from their biased perspective, but they do not hide from truth.

If the alternate reality crowd could learn a lesson here then this would all have been well worth it.

Well that was refreshing to hear. At least some of it.

What news sites, particularly of the left have corrected the story fully? They backed up a bit, but not enough imo. Red linked the Washington Post article this morning and they said nothing or showed nothing where the Nathan Phillips actually approached the kid. Nor I have I seen anyone in the media on the left address the inconsistencies in Nathan's interviews. Did NPR talk about that? I haven't heard their side. But what about the rest? If you read the comments on Washington Post its very clear they did nothing defuse or set the record straight. The readers clearly see it the same way. So I cant give the media credit for slightly backing this thing up. Maybe I missing something. Are there some links you could share that tell the full story, that show what you now can see, that Nathan Phillips wasnt being forthright? All I have seen is they added the element of the Hebrew Israelites or whatever they call themselves. Everyone seems to skim right over the part where Nathan was actually the instigator, by both his actions and his words in his interviews. Why does he need to be protected? A lie is a lie.
 
Honestly, hearing an interview with Nathan Phillips on NPR this morning I don't even really consider him sincere.

The interviewer was awesome and completely respectful, but asked a number of questions that ultimately got Phillips to say that he assumed when he saw a large group of white MAGA hat wearing teens in a confrontation with 4 black men that the black men were the victims and he needed to "do something." I honestly think he had every intention of creating the kind of situation we were initially presented with. That's my gut feeling after listening to 4 different interviews with Phillips. The NPR interview sussed out a few key details from his story that none of the others did. The interviewer was exceptionally skillful.

I'm glad that the entire story came out relatively quickly. Unfortunately not quickly enough that the narrative of snotty little arrogant MAGA hat wearing teen disrespected a Native American Vietnam vet for the fun of it, that story is still spreading. But this is an example of how truth is supposed to work. We saw an incomplete picture and made reasonable conclusions based on that. Then we got a more complete picture and changed our conclusions based on that. The "fake news" showed that they are not fake, and that they present the information they have, albeit from their biased perspective, but they do not hide from truth.

If the alternate reality crowd could learn a lesson here then this would all have been well worth it.

The other problem I have with this is that it could very well be proof that the media doesnt get it right often, is fake, and is very biased.

What if the other video footage never surfaced? What then? They would still be calling for this kid's head. All for what? An image of the two standing face to face? How does that equal the kid was doing something wrong? Can you not see a clear bias here? With just that first image, there was no evidence that proves one way or the other, yet it was immediately made out be that the kid in the maga hat was automatically guilty. That just proves there is a problem with a bias and willingness from the media to report with a slant regardless of who gets caught in the cross fire. They only changed their tune because they had to, because the camera doesnt lie.

Fake news doesnt have to mean that the entire story is fake. It can mean that only parts of the truth were shown or given in order to make things seem a certain way. A good propagandist can take any event and spin it to look a certain way. Its easy to take things out of context to sell a story. You know this is possible right?
 
Well that was refreshing to hear. At least some of it.

What news sites, particularly of the left have corrected the story fully? They backed up a bit, but not enough imo. Red linked the Washington Post article this morning and they said nothing or showed nothing where the Nathan Phillips actually approached the kid. Nor I have I seen anyone in the media on the left address the inconsistencies in Nathan's interviews. Did NPR talk about that? I haven't heard their side. But what about the rest? If you read the comments on Washington Post its very clear they did nothing defuse or set the record straight. The readers clearly see it the same way. So I cant give the media credit for slightly backing this thing up. Maybe I missing something. Are there some links you could share that tell the full story, that show what you now can see, that Nathan Phillips wasnt being forthright? All I have seen is they added the element of the Hebrew Israelites or whatever they call themselves. Everyone seems to skim right over the part where Nathan was actually the instigator, by both his actions and his words in his interviews. Why does he need to be protected? A lie is a lie.
My take is based on listening to Phillips. He's playing innocent way too hard. The facts don't support the narrative he seems to be selling.
 
The other problem I have with this is that it could very well be proof that the media doesnt get it right often, is fake, and is very biased.

What if the other video footage never surfaced? What then? They would still be calling for this kid's head. All for what? An image of the two standing face to face? How does that equal the kid was doing something wrong? Can you not see a clear bias here? With just that first image, there was no evidence that proves one way or the other, yet it was immediately made out be that the kid in the maga hat was automatically guilty. That just proves there is a problem with a bias and willingness from the media to report with a slant regardless of who gets caught in the cross fire. They only changed their tune because they had to, because the camera doesnt lie.

Fake news doesnt have to mean that the entire story is fake. It can mean that only parts of the truth were shown or given in order to make things seem a certain way. A good propagandist can take any event and spin it to look a certain way. Its easy to take things out of context to sell a story. You know this is possible right?
If the other video never surfaced then the media wouldn't have other info to go on... like do you think the media always has perfect info and just tells us what they want?
 
If the other video never surfaced then the media wouldn't have other info to go on... like do you think the media always has perfect info and just tells us what they want?

No. But this situation is different than just random stories dont you think? Considering everything that is going on? With the political climate we are in. What about this being a kid? Does the media not know the impact they have? Do you really think they are oblivious to what doxing is? Shouldn't the media be a little more responsible, a little more patient? Its completely reckless to hurrying and run with a story like that with very little evidence. Why even run it if you have little evidence and nothing even really happened? Since when is it news that two people stood face to face? They didnt even bother asking the kid did they? Did they give him an interview and chance to tell his story? How in the hell did they even get an interview with Nathan so quickly anyways?

Seriously though, why didnt the kid get a chance to tell his side, at the same time Nathan did, before they ran with the story?
 


the media and the left have jumped the shark!

first they disrespect the 11 dead in the synagogue by blaming trump. now they want these kids doxed and violence used against them and their parents!

they have no shred of decency and honesty.
cnn, abc, msnbc, verge vox, buzzfeed new york times wapo wsj! they can all go to hell for all i care.

no morals no principles just evil ****ing socialist!


ps twitter supsended some of the maga kids(unless it where fake acounts and suspended for being fake, dont have absolute proof ofcourse)
but twitter refuses to suspend left wing punk *** bitches who openly doxed and called for violence. DOUBLE STANDARD
 
lol 1984 is coming through orwell just had the date wrong.
now that all the facts have come out, left wing ****ers like thriller and far left POS now fabricate face crime. the kid committed a FACE CRIME so now he must be severely punished!


lyqdzxozqub21.png
 
also twitter, youtube and facebook are cracking down on fake news right! so when will they ban the accoutns of every single media outlet who participated int his.

they wont!


lolz


dont get me wrong, i dont want them to be gatekeepers on fakenews. but if they do it to one they also need to do it to the news outlets who participated in this FAKE NEWS! or unban the previously banned once
 
No. But this situation is different than just random stories dont you think? Considering everything that is going on? With the political climate we are in. What about this being a kid? Does the media not know the impact they have? Do you really think they are oblivious to what doxing is? Shouldn't the media be a little more responsible, a little more patient? Its completely reckless to hurrying and run with a story like that with very little evidence. Why even run it if you have little evidence and nothing even really happened? Since when is it news that two people stood face to face? They didnt even bother asking the kid did they? Did they give him an interview and chance to tell his story? How in the hell did they even get an interview with Nathan so quickly anyways?

Seriously though, why didnt the kid get a chance to tell his side, at the same time Nathan did, before they ran with the story?
I agree with you in this instance. I wish you were willing to dwell in reality more often, not only when it suited your narrative.
 
We could be like some, miss the point entirely, and just rage about evil media, and socialism, always the socialism, lol. You know, we could make complete jackasses out of ourselves, compose comments in such a way that the image of the poster that most readily emerges is that of a deranged, foaming at the mouth, lunatic.

Or, we could try to take an intelligent, deliberate, composed look at the root of some misunderstandings in a hyper partisan society. We could see if we can learn something here about how information travels in a hyper partisan climate, via viral videos.

For instance, Here's a good essay from the Atlantic, which suggests we stop trusting said viral videos. In this instance, by looking at the difference editing makes, rather then an endless search for truth through focusing strictly on the content of those videos.

This is a pretty thoughtful essay. We all have our style. I favor thoughtful over 4Chan nutjob. I'm glad most posters here do as well. Whatever side of our present political disorder one finds oneself, we can learn things that otherwise might have escaped our awareness. That's what I'm looking for, and this essay helped.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...udents-and-native-americans-explained/580906/

"To understand just how susceptible images like this are to total reinterpretation, consider an alternative scenario. Imagine that instead of standing silently and seemingly smug, the teen had maintained a neutral countenance and then removed his maga hat from his head. Such an act would have been interpreted, almost universally, as a gesture of meekness and respect. Some would have overinterpreted it, no doubt, taking it as a sign that the student had shed not just the cap, a symbol of Trumpism, but all the ideologies bound up in that symbolic garment. And this interpretation would have cohered and spread no matter whether Sandmann really meant any of it or not. (I pointed out a similar feature in the Jim Acosta White House video, in which a small shift in the position of a camera could utterly change the apparent meaning of the resulting images.) The entire tenor of the viral moment would have flipped, and the students likely would have enjoyed being portrayed as meek heroes representing the tolerant promise of American youth.

Consider a change in framing or editing instead: Had the original clip been shot from the reverse angle, showing Sandmann and his classmates from the back, his maga hat visible but not his smirk, the meaning of the situation would have also changed. No longer does the student represent the worst stereotype of white intolerance, but now he becomes a mere prop for Phillips, whose drumming reads as both pacifist in its delivery and reception. My point is not to apologize for the students’ behavior, or even to explain it, but to underscore how a slightly different video might have convinced the very same viewers who censured the Covington Catholic students to reach exactly the opposite conclusion."
 
We could be like some, miss the point entirely, and just rage about evil media, and socialism, always the socialism, lol. You know, we could make complete jackasses out of ourselves, compose comments in such a way that the image of the poster that most readily emerges is that of a deranged, foaming at the mouth, lunatic.

Or, we could try to take an intelligent, deliberate, composed look at the root of some misunderstandings in a hyper partisan society. We could see if we can learn something here about how information travels in a hyper partisan climate, via viral videos.

For instance, Here's a good essay from the Atlantic, which suggests we stop trusting said viral videos. In this instance, by looking at the difference editing makes, rather then an endless search for truth through focusing strictly on the content of those videos.

This is a pretty thoughtful essay. We all have our style. I favor thoughtful over 4Chan nutjob. I'm glad most posters here do as well. Whatever side of our present political disorder one finds oneself, we can learn things that otherwise might have escaped our awareness. That's what I'm looking for, and this essay helped.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...udents-and-native-americans-explained/580906/

"To understand just how susceptible images like this are to total reinterpretation, consider an alternative scenario. Imagine that instead of standing silently and seemingly smug, the teen had maintained a neutral countenance and then removed his maga hat from his head. Such an act would have been interpreted, almost universally, as a gesture of meekness and respect. Some would have overinterpreted it, no doubt, taking it as a sign that the student had shed not just the cap, a symbol of Trumpism, but all the ideologies bound up in that symbolic garment. And this interpretation would have cohered and spread no matter whether Sandmann really meant any of it or not. (I pointed out a similar feature in the Jim Acosta White House video, in which a small shift in the position of a camera could utterly change the apparent meaning of the resulting images.) The entire tenor of the viral moment would have flipped, and the students likely would have enjoyed being portrayed as meek heroes representing the tolerant promise of American youth.

Consider a change in framing or editing instead: Had the original clip been shot from the reverse angle, showing Sandmann and his classmates from the back, his maga hat visible but not his smirk, the meaning of the situation would have also changed. No longer does the student represent the worst stereotype of white intolerance, but now he becomes a mere prop for Phillips, whose drumming reads as both pacifist in its delivery and reception. My point is not to apologize for the students’ behavior, or even to explain it, but to underscore how a slightly different video might have convinced the very same viewers who censured the Covington Catholic students to reach exactly the opposite conclusion."
It also reminded me somewhat of this. It's specifically talking about police body cams, but still has some relevance:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/04/01/us/police-bodycam-video.html
 
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i still think in general your views are downright evil and lead to mass death and starvation

Yes, every morning when I open my eyes and discover I still live and breathe, I ask myself how many millions of people will suffer and die today because I exist? May God have mercy on my soul....
 
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