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How white liberals view black voters

One Brow said:
People cheat for gain. What you are saying is that people will cheat to spend what it often more than an hour in line to cast a single vote. That's a lot of time for very little gain.



Election fraud is rampant and occurs pretty much every election. Voter impersonation fraud is extremely rare.



Voter ID does nothing to stop election fraud. It's a solution in search of a problem.
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I think you must be purposely trying to be dense. I specifically said that the politicians would exploit a no ID system for gain. So let's imagine a voting system that requires no ID. Is it impossible for you to believe that a campaign might recognize that they are being handed the opportunity to send people to the polls multiple times in different districts under different names? Why create a system where this could happen when having an ID is already such a central part of being a responsible adult?

Honestly, the reason I think Dems are so adamant about this is that they believe they will continue to dupe minority populations into voting for them, even though they have, and will continue to be, a terrible solution for such populations. They would like nothing more than to show up in these districts, gather herds of people who don't really care enough to vote on their own, and send them into the polls believing that these disengaged citizens will pull the lever like lemmings for democrats .

And LOL at your claim that election fraud is rampant but this particular form of fraud would not and could not possibly be a problem.
 
Harambe said:
Your research is astounding. I'm super impressed. Which publication are you going to publish through?
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Thanks. I have opted for a very prestigious publication called JazzFanz. I know my conclusions are earth-shattering to some liberal political activists, but fortunately the vast majority of people recognize it as common sense.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I think you must be purposely trying to be dense. I specifically said that the politicians would exploit a no ID system for gain. So let's imagine a voting system that requires no ID. Is it impossible for you to believe that a campaign might recognize that they are being handed the opportunity to send people to the polls multiple times in different districts under different names? Why create a system where this could happen when having an ID is already such a central part of being a responsible adult?
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Why are we still discussing a no ID system?

At any rate, how much are politicians paying these people to 1) stand in several lines, for hours over the course of a day, and 2) not say anything to anyone, ever? Think they can get real value from that?

Joe Bagadonuts said:
Honestly, the reason I think Dems are so adamant ...
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Yawn.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
And LOL at your claim that election fraud is rampant but this particular form of fraud would not and could not possibly be a problem.
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I didn't claim "would not and could not possibly be", I merely said "is not", by every study that has been conducted over multiple jurisdictions with various levels of ID required.
 
One Brow said:
Why are we still discussing a no ID system?

At any rate, how much are politicians paying these people to 1) stand in several lines, for hours over the course of a day, and 2) not say anything to anyone, ever? Think they can get real value from that?



Yawn.



I didn't claim "would not and could not possibly be", I merely said "is not", by every study that has been conducted over multiple jurisdictions with various levels of ID required.
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Yawn.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Thanks. I have opted for a very prestigious publication called JazzFanz. I know my conclusions are earth-shattering to some liberal political activists, but fortunately the vast majority of people recognize it as common sense.
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You're not going to have much luck there. It appears half the board makes you look stupid, and the other half makes you look paranoid.

But good luck.
 
Harambe said:
You're not going to have much luck there. It appears half the board makes you look stupid, and the other half makes you look paranoid.

But good luck.
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I'm confident that you are vastly under-polling those who agree with me, most of whom are not interested in engaging in these sorts of conversations. A significant reason for their silence is that they are completely unimpressed by the go-to tactic of many liberals, which is to demean and intimidate conservatives for expressing their opinions. Your above post is a fair example.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'm confident that you are vastly under-polling those who agree with me, most of whom are not interested in engaging in these sorts of conversations. A significant reason for their silence is that they are completely unimpressed by the go-to tactic of many liberals, which is to demean and intimidate conservatives for expressing their opinions. Your above post is a fair example.
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I'm not sure you understand polling. You've not posted any actual evidence.

I bet if you start with "These numbers support" instead of "My study(that isn't available anywhere except my head)" you'd have better luck? I mean... you don't need a sign to know that a hill of beans is a hill of beans. But why you'd post a sign for a hill of beans when there's an acorn or two behind it baffles.
 
Harambe said:
I'm not sure you understand polling. You've not posted any actual evidence.

I bet if you start with "These numbers support" instead of "My study(that isn't available anywhere except my head)" you'd have better luck? I mean... you don't need a sign to know that a hill of beans is a hill of beans. But why you'd post a sign for a hill of beans when there's an acorn or two behind it baffles.
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Under counting, okay? That's a better word choice than under polling. And if I wrote, "My study," (which I don't recall that I ever did) it was definitely in a joking manner. As for your hill of beans and acorns story, what in the hell are you talking about?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Under counting, okay? That's a better word choice than under polling. And if I wrote, "My study," (which I don't recall that I ever did) it was definitely in a joking manner. As for your hill of beans and acorns story, what in the hell are you talking about?
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Hint: I'm very aware you didn't conduct a study. Nor did you read someone else's. Nor do you care for any reasoning than what you've already decided on.
 
Harambe said:
Hint: I'm very aware you didn't conduct a study. Nor did you read someone else's. Nor do you care for any reasoning than what you've already decided on.
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I've read the reports from those who claim ID is an unnecessary complication. I disagree with them. If they were being honest I think they would admit they believe that by offering impoverished people free stuff they will be able to march those people into the polls and extract their votes. The Dems know how effective this strategy has been at earning votes for decades, and they see it as an annoyance that some people believe it's reasonable to ask people to act like an adult (obtain an ID) in order to insure that voting can be conducted fairly and efficiently.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
If they were being honest I think they would admit they believe that by offering impoverished people free stuff they will be able to march those people into the polls and extract their votes.
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So, It can't possibly be characterized as people voting in their own interests. To you, the poor are just natural resource containers, from which to extract things, like votes. Interesting.

Nothing in your diatribe indicated how voter IDs make the voting process fair nor efficient.
 
One Brow said:
So, It can't possibly be characterized as people voting in their own interests. To you, the poor are just natural resource containers, from which to extract things, like votes. Interesting.

Nothing in your diatribe indicated how voter IDs make the voting process fair nor efficient.
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I have explained why ID is necessary ad nauseum. I don't know how you've missed it. And how incredibly ironic to have a lib claim that to me the poor are just containers from which to extract votes. That is precisely and unquestionably what the Democrat party has been doing for decades.

To me the poor are people, just like people of any other class, who ought to get IDs, educate themselves about candidates, and vote for the ones who will ultimately do them the most good in the real world. IMO, if they did that the Dems would have to scramble to reposition their platforms because it doesn't take very much research at all to figure out that as attractive as giving out free stuff sounds, it never works out well for anybody (including those who assume they will be on the receiving end).
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I have explained why ID is necessary ad nauseum.
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You've been wrong, ad nauseum. For example, you have not shown how voter ID is in any way superior to an ID mailed to the voter by the board of elections, or just plain old verbal ID.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
And how incredibly ironic to have a lib claim that to me the poor are just containers from which to extract votes. That is precisely and unquestionably what the Democrat party has been doing for decades.
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It's pretty amusing how the concept of genuinely trying to better the lives of people is so foreign to you that you can't conceive of it as a motive.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
IMO, if they did that the Dems would have to scramble to reposition their platforms because it doesn't take very much research at all to figure out that as attractive as giving out free stuff sounds, it never works out well for anybody (including those who assume they will be on the receiving end).
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I'm not sure how you define "well", but it works out better than "let them starve".
 
One Brow said:
You've been wrong, ad nauseum. For example, you have not shown how voter ID is in any way superior to an ID mailed to the voter by the board of elections, or just plain old verbal ID.



It's pretty amusing how the concept of genuinely trying to better the lives of people is so foreign to you that you can't conceive of it as a motive.



I'm not sure how you define "well", but it works out better than "let them starve".
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Giving government handouts does not equal lifting people up. I know it has the appearance of doing the right thing when you pass out benefits to people simply because they exist, but it does not do them any long-term favors. Teaching people to stand with their hand out is not a good life strategy. Promising government handouts that won't ever be realized, in order to get votes, is even worse.

What I don't think is working out "well" is the liberal approach (partially described above) taken for so many years in places like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. where we see the situation worsening year after year. School standards are ridiculously low. Policing is ineffective, partly because the police are on notice that any interaction is going to be judged on racial terms. Many families are a disaster, often because misguided policies encourage men to leave which creates dangerous and cyclical cultural norms.

I know that these problems are challenging and complex. I believe that they become even more challenging when we implement government policies that create a culture of dependency. IMO, it is much better to give a hand up than a hand-out. We need teachers with high expectations, police who can confidently become involved in their communities, leaders who inspire people to work and to improve their communities, volunteers who set an example at ground level, and much more. I know many, many people who have overcome poverty and become financially independent, and I believe similar routes remain open to anyone determined to better their situation. The saddest thing to me is that some people no longer believe in the American Dream. As with anything these sorts of thoughts are self-fulfilling prophecies. I do not believe that it is too late to chart a better course.
 
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