Ellipse
Well-Known Member
You want the Kurds to have security against a Turkish invasion? Then we should arm Assad's armies so that Turkey wouldn't dare invade Syria. Oh, wait....
Trump abandons Kurdish allies to Turkish invasion
- Thread starter Zombie
- Start date
You want the Kurds to have security against a Turkish invasion? Then we should arm Assad's armies so that Turkey wouldn't dare invade Syria. Oh, wait....
Daym!
@The Thriller
This is basically what I've criticized, the team sports mentality you bring to politics. Republicans are bad, Democrats are good, everything depends on supporting the Democrats.
Our current situation is not a "both sides are equally bad" thing. In my opinion it is a Trump is a special kind of incompetent, corrupt and stupid thing. I also think mainstream Republicans should eventually pay a price for supporting him. But beyond Trump and the free pass he's been given, I don't give much of a **** about Ds vs Rs. Now I'm for LGBTQ rights and equality, women's rights, equality and equal pay, prison reform, the end of the war on drugs, rational environmental legislation (neither party has my full support on this one), a smaller military, less military interventionism, and stuff I'm probably forgetting. So for the time being the scale is tipped in favor of Democrats, tipped hard until Trump is gone, but 10 years from now... I'll probably be voting for Republicans.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Kind of hard to tell just who these people are, unless we're supposed to take the word of a channel whose subscriber base is apparently full of antisemites and homophobes. I guess there's a gay pride flag flying in the background, maybe the gays did this? The homosexual agenda strikes again! In any case I didn't see any violence in this video.
In all seriousness it's really difficult to have a productive conversation about antifa because for some reason nobody is wants to have an actual nuanced discussion about them. This is in part because "Antifa" as an organized group, with shared objectives simply doesn't exist.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
If you're going to continue to look at something as complicated at this through a simple either or proposition that you just, I don't know make up out of thin air(?) then I think we're done here.
I'm not a cheerleader. I'm not sold on either party.
That said, Trump raises my hackles like nothing I've seen in my lifetime. I think he's bad. Really bad. Not bad like his ideas offend me, bad like he's a narcissistic egomaniacal blow hard who would sacrifice the United States and everyone in it for his own little ego boost. That and he's completely incompetent.
So don't count me as a plus in the conservative column. Until Trump is gone I'm 1000% with those who oppose him. And when I'm all-in I'm all-in. If you left me and Trump in a room together for 10 min only one of us would leave alive. And If they felt the need to execute me afterwards I'd die with a smile on my face.
fishonjazz
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He didnt say its ok. He pointed out that your statement of ANYONE witha different point of view is incorrect.
They have a target profile who they go after.
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fishonjazz
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Gameface, all the issues you support are opposed by the Repugnants. Funny, how much you disagree with me when on most issues we actually agree. I think you got all bent out of shape because I posted some cautionary information about vaccines. But I also agree that the Dems are not offering good solutions to many of the problems either.
The Thriller
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There was a discussion a while back that I had with @Gameface where I admitted that I’ve changed my views on American international presence. Over the past decade or so we went the rounds over American intervention. At times it became heated over things like the Iraqi war. However, I think both of us have adjusted our views due to new information and experiences. As my research and job right now is oriented towards American history, I’ve come to see American intervention in a less cynical and pessimistic light.
Before you criticize me for flip flopping because of Trump, I’ll freely admit Trump has had an impact on my thinking. I think his presidency has shown the need for America to lead in a positive way. Imagine how much different things would’ve been if he had supported Ukraine in a positive and less self-serving way. So yes, as I’ve stated on this board in the past few years, my views on American intervention have changed since 2015 or hell 2004, when I first began posting on the board. Back then I remember we had debates about gay marriage. I remember hesitancy on my part to legalize that. But that was before I attended college and gained the necessary introspection to change views taught to me in a (mormon) conservative environment.
Trump’s presidency should have caused us all to reflect harder on executive orders, the checks and balances of government, and what it means to be an American. That’s not herd or team mentality. That’s not what’s causing problems in our society today. It’s called learning from experience. If anything, our society lacks introspection.
Criticizing people for not self-reflecting and never changing views is dumb. I’ll never understand it. So yes @framer, new information, job, experience, and a horribly corrupt president can cause our views to change and become more nuanced over a period of 5 years.
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Red
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“The president is a nationalist, which is not at all the same thing as a patriot. A nationalist encourages us to be our worst, and then tells us that we are the best. A nationalist, “although endlessly brooding on power, victory, defeat, revenge,” wrote Orwell, tends to be “uninterested in what happens in the real world.” Nationalism is relativist, since the only truth is the resentment we feel when we contemplate others. As the novelist Danilo Kiš put it, nationalism “has no universal values, aesthetic or ethical.” A patriot, by contrast, wants the nation to live up to its ideals, which means asking us to be our best selves. A patriot must be concerned with the real world, which is the only place where his country can be loved and sustained. A patriot has universal values, standards by which he judges his nation, always wishing it well—and wishing that it would do better. Democracy failed in Europe in the 1920s, ’30s, and ’40s, and it is failing not only in much of Europe but in many parts of the world today. It is that history and experience that reveals to us the dark range of our possible futures. A nationalist will say that “it can’t happen here,” which is the first step toward disaster. A patriot says that it could happen here, but that we will stop it.
― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century
And, since the letter the White House sent to Congress basically announced "I, Donald Trump, am above any and all laws", Republicans will have the choice of deciding whether or not "it can't happen here". In terms of our foreign policy, the GOP is aghast at Trump's decision on Syria. But domestically, they sure ain't aghast so far, in fact they seem fine with absolute power, and I suspect they are prepared to let it happen here.
Hahaha
Red
Well-Known Member
“Post-truth is pre-fascism.”
― Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century
It is Trump who is attempting to usher in a Post Truth era of "alternative facts" and identifying as "fake news" any news, or any opinions, that differ from his own. This is what fascists do. They attempt to strangle an independent press, they repeat lies under the belief that if you repeat lies often enough, they are believed. Truth is the first casualty of a fascist regime, and wherever you want to place Trump on the political spectrum, it sure isn't "leftist".
Dont play that game. We’re better off without it.
While I'm not sure how I feel about abandoning the Kurds (good to be out, bad to leave them to Erdogan), my heart was touched by this.
Yes. "too" is a synonym for "also".
Antifa defend themselves from violence with violence. I suppose you don't believe in using violence in self-defense.
So, to support the notion that antifa are violent, you offered a selectively clipped video without a single act of violence?
When I first started posting in prior editions of this board, I was probably older than the The Thriller is now, and I've revised my opinions on many topics since then. You're never too old to learn to be better, and think more carefully.
Red
Well-Known Member
No problem, there are some obvious candidates for informed speculation, and folks are going there...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1064011