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The Serial Podcast

Gameface said:
The more I unfortunately follow this on Reddit the more I wonder if Adnan is actually guilty.

There are tons of questions, but there's really no alternative. Before Reddit I was thinking it must have been Jay, but really, why? Why would Jay kill her? His connection to her is very very small. He hasn't killed anyone since (obvious qualifier, that we know of). If it wasn't Jay then who? Like seriously, Hae got killed. someone did it for a reason (in their own mind). Who?

Reddit is killing me.
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Next episode I cannnnnnnnnot wait. It goes into "is adnan psychopath theory." I hope they interview Bilal, someone who knew Adnan when he was younger and said Adnan always stole from mosque and bragged about it. Sarah kroenig said in an interview that they have had people come up to her after the podcast started that will be part of the show. Basically either Adnan choked and killed someone and lied about it to his friends and family all these years or Jay did. Currently I think 60% chance Adnan did, 30 % chance Jay did, and 10% chance someone else did who we don't know (There was a serial killer who would strangle people to death in Baltimore area who got caught in 2004 for example. However, why would Jay testify about Adnan then?)
 
Jason said:
Thanks for pointing me to the podcast. Caught up over the weekend. I struggle to believe Adnan is innocent. Feel like the host is trying to will him to be but I could be drunk...
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Nightmare said:
Sadly I tend to agree with you. Too me it sounds like the most likely outcome is Jay was Adnans alibi and when Jay squealed Adnan was left with nothing to say.


I know this ^ is borderline propaganda but would you still vote guilty?
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In one of the episodes that law professor lady said something along the line of the innocent is usually the least helpful person. I think this is crucial when looking at Adnan.


Think about this - Adnan had 6 whole weeks to come up with a story to at least free himself. But he didn't. Why not? If your *** is on the line for a life sentence why not come up with 'something' at least? The fact that he said that he couldn't remember EXACTLY what happened that day I can totally identify with. Thinking back 2 weeks ago on a particular day I haven't a clue what I was doing, let alone 6 whole weeks.
 
Gameface said:
The more I unfortunately follow this on Reddit the more I wonder if Adnan is actually guilty.

There are tons of questions, but there's really no alternative. Before Reddit I was thinking it must have been Jay, but really, why? Why would Jay kill her? His connection to her is very very small. He hasn't killed anyone since (obvious qualifier, that we know of). If it wasn't Jay then who? Like seriously, Hae got killed. someone did it for a reason (in their own mind). Who?

Reddit is killing me.
Click to expand...

Well there's the theory that Adnan and Hae knew about Jay being unfaithful to Stephanie, and that Hae was bout to confront Jay about it just that day. Jay admitted to having involved in crime, etc, in the post, so he certainly has the means and the min set to commit such a murder and covering it up. He also has Jen in his back pocket, who he admitted himself is helped him.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Well there's the theory that Adnan and Hae knew about Jay being unfaithful to Stephanie, and that Hae was bout to confront Jay about it just that day. Jay admitted to having involved in crime, etc, in the post, so he certainly has the means and the min set to commit such a murder and covering it up. He also has Jen in his back pocket, who he admitted himself is helped him.
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Having someone threaten to tell your GF you cheated on them is a pretty weak motive. And Jay was not "involved in crime" he was a 20yo who smoked pot and bought enough extra to sell some to other people. That doesn't even count as being a drug dealer.
 
Gameface said:
Having someone threaten to tell your GF you cheated on them is a pretty weak motive. And Jay was not "involved in crime" he was a 20yo who smoked pot and bought enough extra to sell some to other people. That doesn't even count as being a drug dealer.
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But Adnan's motive isn't very strong neither. He moved on and was seeing other girls. Moreover some of the jury admitted to thinking that Adnan as a muslim had religious motive as well which is really discriminatory imo.
 
Gameface said:
The more I unfortunately follow this on Reddit the more I wonder if Adnan is actually guilty.

There are tons of questions, but there's really no alternative. Before Reddit I was thinking it must have been Jay, but really, why? Why would Jay kill her? His connection to her is very very small. He hasn't killed anyone since (obvious qualifier, that we know of). If it wasn't Jay then who? Like seriously, Hae got killed. someone did it for a reason (in their own mind). Who?

Reddit is killing me.
Click to expand...

Wondering if he's guilty is one thing. He might have did it.

The evidence for it is awful though. I'm not sure how any juror couldn't have had reasonable doubt. The fact there was no physical evidence whatsoever is a huge red flag in my mind.
 
I agree that it's a very strange crime. It's an interesting crime we only have two good suspects/scenarios... and neither scenario is satisfying in motive or in physical evidence. There are three possible scenarios--although one seems to be extremely unlikely:

1. Jay is telling the whole truth, or some of the truth, an Adnon killed her (there's a lot of grey in this...as Jay could certainly be lying about his involvement...but the essential part of this theory is that Adnon was involved)

2. Jay did it and is framing Adnon

3. Someone else did it. And Jay's testimony was either coerced by the cops completely; or he's covering for them.

3 seems very unlikely, for reasons pretty obvious. But the two possible scenarios--either Adnan is lying or Jay is--don't make a whole lot of sense, either. Jay's story has a lot of holes in it--definitely places where he was covering for himself--but it still offers the "best" narrative for the murder, imo. I will say, as speculation has gone on, I have started to entertain the idea that Jay completely framed Adnan. When I try to work it out in my mind though I still find it baffling. So much had to have fallen in Jay's lap for him to make Adnan the perfect patsy.
 
Shamelessly copying paste off reddit.

Reasons Jay didn't do it.

No motive for Jay, there is a motive for Adnan (as her ex).
Nisha call.
Adnan's forgetfulness.
Adnan's failure to call/page Hae after her disappearance.
No obvious way for Jay to get Hae alone in her car, whereas with Adnan it is clear how he could manage it.
Jay voluntarily came to the police risking a lot given that the police might not believe him and that he was voluntarily implicating himself as an accomplice to murder.
Jay couldn't have expected Adnan wouldn't have an alibi if he was trying to frame Adnan and so was taking a huge risk trying to pin the murder on Adnan.
Jay told several people soon after the act that Adnan did it (long before the police interviewed him and put the idea to frame Adnan in his head like many people on this subreddit have been contending).
Cell towers reveal that Adnan's phone was in Linkin Park during the time even Adnan says he had his phone and during the time Hae's body was being buried in Linkin Park.
Jay seems genuinely shocked that Adnan wouldn't admit to the murder a decade later.
Jay told multiple people he was afraid of Adnan hurting Stephanie long before the cops were involved.
Adnan told one cop that he had asked Hae for a ride that day and then changed his story (other people say he did too) suggesting he was trying to get her alone in her car that day.
Jay did not know he would have Adnan's car and phone that day, and so the murder couldn't have been some planned attempt to frame Adnan in murdering Hae by borrowing Adnan's phone and car. Jay ended up with Adnan's phone and car on the spur of the moment at Adnan's urging on the day of the murder.
Jen called Adnan's phone at a time when Jay said they were burying Hae's body and cell towers reveal the phone was in Linkin Park. She says Adnan picked up.
Jay and Adnan hung out all day and Jay's story is that he and Adnan worked together on the murder that day; Adnan's story is a less believable account where he is with Jay throughout the day, but Jay managed to kill Adnan's ex-girlfriend for no reason while Adnan has just by chance "stepped out" for a short period of time and was not with Jay.

The 'I will kill' note.
The palm print on the map in Hae's car.
All the Muslim faith and honor besmirched stuff.
The pathetic comment.
The acting weird at not-her-real-name Cathy's.
The way Adnan talks and his speech patterns when SK interviews him.
 
Yeah. I'm not sure how we should evaluate a "snitch-testimony" but... while Jay's confession and account of the crime is certainly self-serving, it still makes the most sense. The details Jay gave... I remember him describing Hae's body in the trunk "wrapped up like a pretzel"... are very different from Adnan's account--he's always vague, contradictory, and doesn't remember anything about the day (if you're whole life came down to what you were doing in a certain span of time--wouldn't you be able to think of some alibi?)

His speech patterns? Haven't read much analysis on Adnan's interviews with Sk. Interesting. I've heard next episode investigates the idea that Adnan is a psychopath...should be interesting.
 
fallenchicken said:
I agree that it's a very strange crime. It's an interesting crime we only have two good suspects/scenarios... and neither scenario is satisfying in motive or in physical evidence. There are three possible scenarios--although one seems to be extremely unlikely:

1. Jay is telling the whole truth, or some of the truth, an Adnon killed her (there's a lot of grey in this...as Jay could certainly be lying about his involvement...but the essential part of this theory is that Adnon was involved)

2. Jay did it and is framing Adnon

3. Someone else did it. And Jay's testimony was either coerced by the cops completely; or he's covering for them.

3 seems very unlikely, for reasons pretty obvious. But the two possible scenarios--either Adnan is lying or Jay is--don't make a whole lot of sense, either. Jay's story has a lot of holes in it--definitely places where he was covering for himself--but it still offers the "best" narrative for the murder, imo. I will say, as speculation has gone on, I have started to entertain the idea that Jay completely framed Adnan. When I try to work it out in my mind though I still find it baffling. So much had to have fallen in Jay's lap for him to make Adnan the perfect patsy.
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I think you're missing one more possibility. That Jay and Adnon killed Hea, Jay is pinning it all on Adnon. Adnon can't dispute Jay's specific claims without admitting his involvement and he eventually wants to be released while maintaining his innocence.
 
Nightmare said:
Shamelessly copying paste off reddit.

Reasons Jay didn't do it.

No motive for Jay, there is a motive for Adnan (as her ex).

Motive may not be the biggest deal as whatever the motive it was clearly an unreasonable overreaction to the circumstances, so it might not make sense to anyone but the killer.

Nisha call.

Butt dial or intentional red herring

Adnan's forgetfulness.

I don't see how that proves anything about Jay

Adnan's failure to call/page Hae after her disappearance.

I find it odd, but I don't think it means Adnon killed her. Big stretch. Plus, you're supposed to be telling us why Jay is innocent.

No obvious way for Jay to get Hae alone in her car, whereas with Adnan it is clear how he could manage it.

That may have been tricky, but maybe it wasn't. Plus, we don't know for certain he needed to be in her car. You're assuming Jay's claimed series of events is at least somewhat accurate. It may not be.

Jay voluntarily came to the police risking a lot given that the police might not believe him and that he was voluntarily implicating himself as an accomplice to murder.

Jenn had already spoken to police and it seems like she wasn't holding up well to their questioning. He may have known she would lead them to him so he contacted them first.

Jay couldn't have expected Adnan wouldn't have an alibi if he was trying to frame Adnan and so was taking a huge risk trying to pin the murder on Adnan.

I'm about to post a crazy theory, but Jay and Adnon spent a lot of time together that day. Jay may have manipulated his way into Adnon's day in order to set Adnon up.

Jay told several people soon after the act that Adnan did it (long before the police interviewed him and put the idea to frame Adnan in his head like many people on this subreddit have been contending).

He may have been setting Adnon up from the beginning.

Cell towers reveal that Adnan's phone was in Linkin Park during the time even Adnan says he had his phone and during the time Hae's body was being buried in Linkin Park.

Again, this is according to Jay's timeline. That timeline may not be accurate. Jay may have brought Adnon there for the purpose of placing him at the burial scene

Jay seems genuinely shocked that Adnan wouldn't admit to the murder a decade later.

How is it you are able to gauge Jay's genuineness?

Jay told multiple people he was afraid of Adnan hurting Stephanie long before the cops were involved.

Again, his telling people that may have been premeditated

Adnan told one cop that he had asked Hae for a ride that day and then changed his story (other people say he did too) suggesting he was trying to get her alone in her car that day.

Yes, this is an Adnon lie/inconsistency. Again, it isn't conclusive enough to say Adnon did it therefore Jay couldn't have.

Jay did not know he would have Adnan's car and phone that day, and so the murder couldn't have been some planned attempt to frame Adnan in murdering Hae by borrowing Adnan's phone and car. Jay ended up with Adnan's phone and car on the spur of the moment at Adnan's urging on the day of the murder.

Taking the car and the phone may have been more Jay's idea than it seems.

Jen called Adnan's phone at a time when Jay said they were burying Hae's body and cell towers reveal the phone was in Linkin Park. She says Adnan picked up.

Again, this ties into the idea that Jay may have been setting Adnon up from the start.

Jay and Adnan hung out all day and Jay's story is that he and Adnan worked together on the murder that day; Adnan's story is a less believable account where he is with Jay throughout the day, but Jay managed to kill Adnan's ex-girlfriend for no reason while Adnan has just by chance "stepped out" for a short period of time and was not with Jay.

I'm confused what you're saying here. Since my "rebuttal" is hinging on my crazy theory I'll post what I'm thinking below the quote box.

The 'I will kill' note.

Tied with everything else that note is more significant than a teenager with a "I will kill you" note might otherwise be viewed.

The palm print on the map in Hae's car.

They dated. Adnon had been in the car many times.

All the Muslim faith and honor besmirched stuff.

Dang. I'm not going to dignify this part with a response.

(okay, I realize this is a copy/paste. so I'm not pointing the racist card at you)

The pathetic comment.

So what if he thinks Jay is pathetic at this point? That is not proof of anything.

The acting weird at not-her-real-name Cathy's.

I think this has been explained pretty well. First he was mega stoned and chilling at an unfamiliar person's house and got a call that the police would be talking to him. I know if I was in that situation I'd be acting all sorts of weird to some girl who didn't know me.

The way Adnan talks and his speech patterns when SK interviews him.

Speech patterns? This is evidence of guilt? Nah.
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So here's an idea and not one I'm saying I believe necessarily, just an idea.

Let's say, for whatever reason Jay decides he's going to kill Hea. And I've got to say I'm going to be giving Jay credit fr being much smarter than he probably is.

So, he develops a plan. Part of his plan is to frame the ex-boyfriend of the murder (for the sake of this theory just assume that Jay wants to kill for the sake of killing and sees what he considers an opportunity to commit a murder and get away with it). So he gets Adnon to lend him his car and cell phone. In this window (early afternoon. just after dropping Adnon back at school, but before picking him up from tack) Jay is setting up several parts of his plan, plus tying himself to Adnon so that Adnon will at least to some extent be where Jay wants him to be at certain times of the day. Jay intercepts Hea between Woodlawn and her nieces school. He may not kill her right away. He may not kill her in that area. Or maybe he does. This theory isn't tied to the idea that she died when Jay says she died. Jay very well may have moved Hea's car with her body in it, to Leakin Park or the park and ride. He may have elicited help from Jenn to get him and the extra car around.

Adnon does pretty much what Adnon says he did (I'm not fact checking this series of events so please, point out mistakes, I'm not emotionally tied to this idea), Get's out of school, hangs out at the library, goes to track.

Jay picks Adnon up having already killed Hea.

I'm going to take a quick timeout here. Jay and Adnon are "weed buddies." If anyone smoked weed in HS you might get the nature of their relationship. Jay picks Adnon up and then they go hunting for some weed, Jay says his boy Patrick is going to hook them up. Adnon is committed to the journey to score some weed...

Jay then drives to specific places and he either makes calls from those places or in one way or another encourages Adnon to make calls from those places, and is sure to be seen by various people with Adnon on the day Hea goes missing. By the time they get to not-Cathy's they scored some weed and went for a drive up to Leakin Park. Jay was sure to get Adnon a couple extra tokes (rolled a fatty and took a few short and or fake hits so Adnon would get more), then stopped by not_Cathy's. Eventually dropping Adnon off at Mosque, albeit possibly later than Adnon remembers getting there.

After Adnon gets dropped off Jay goes up and makes a half-assed effort at disposing of the body, again with Jenn's help.

That's the rushed, non-fact checked outline of my crazy theory I cooked up last night, anyway.

If that was the case then Adnon's entire story makes sense.

If not there are some things I don't understand about what they both said happened. Why in the world, if you just killed your ex-GF, do you cruise around town, score weed, chill at random people's houses, etc. all why you've got a body to dispose of. The only way doing all those things and waiting to dispose of the body makes sense to me is if Jay needs that time to frame Adnon. If they are in this together then I'd imagine they'd be pretty single minded about dealing with the car and the body. Acting a little weird at not-Cathy's would be a monumental feat for me if I was either of them, especially if I was stoned and just chilling there while I had this gruesome, difficult, risky task looming over me. If I'm just Adnon, chilling with my eccentric weed buddy, clueless, then this all makes sense.

EDIT: So I spelled Hae's name wrong every time. Sorry. No disrespect intended.

EDIT: HAHA, and Adnan's. ****, there goes my credibility.
 
Ahh, all day and no one to tell me theory is junk?
 
So, Stephanie (probably not how you spell her name)? It's her birthday and Jay is spending it with Jenn. What's up with that?

Plus I thought of something in regard to motive.

Adnan (got it right this time) has motive to kill Hae because she ended their relationship. Hae is threatening to confront Jay over his "stepping-out" on Stephanie, which will likely cause that relationship to end.

Similar motive?
 
There's a pretty funny one of those hitler rants things on youtube about Serial, but there's some banned words in it so I can't post the link. All I can say is that if it doesn't include the Serial opening score it's not the one.
 
Spelling people's names wrong is understandable considering they have foreign names and it is a podcast so it is never spelled out.

Your theory can make sense but once again the biggest question mark everyone has is Jay's motive which your theory doesn't answer.

For a side note, Adnans close friend Saad maintains an active question session on reddit. I asked him a question last night and he answered right away. If anyone has any questions for him you can ask him there btw.

https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2jm1xc/ask_saad_adnans_best_friend/
 
Gameface said:
Ahh, all day and no one to tell me theory is junk?
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I've said this before and I'll say it again, with a motive, Jay is just as likely to be guilty as Adnan is in this case. He has all the info, he was there at every single point, he could have just been describing himself every time he said the word "Adnan" when talking to the police.


To me the police really ****ed this up when they decided to side with Jay no matter what. They cut that deal too fast. They should have investigated BOTH Jay and Adnan equally and see where that leads. The investigation basically stopped when the police made that plea deal with Jay.
 
Gameface said:
So here's an idea and not one I'm saying I believe necessarily, just an idea.

Let's say, for whatever reason Jay decides he's going to kill Hea. And I've got to say I'm going to be giving Jay credit fr being much smarter than he probably is.

So, he develops a plan. Part of his plan is to frame the ex-boyfriend of the murder (for the sake of this theory just assume that Jay wants to kill for the sake of killing and sees what he considers an opportunity to commit a murder and get away with it). So he gets Adnon to lend him his car and cell phone. In this window (early afternoon. just after dropping Adnon back at school, but before picking him up from tack) Jay is setting up several parts of his plan, plus tying himself to Adnon so that Adnon will at least to some extent be where Jay wants him to be at certain times of the day. Jay intercepts Hea between Woodlawn and her nieces school. He may not kill her right away. He may not kill her in that area. Or maybe he does. This theory isn't tied to the idea that she died when Jay says she died. Jay very well may have moved Hea's car with her body in it, to Leakin Park or the park and ride. He may have elicited help from Jenn to get him and the extra car around.

Adnon does pretty much what Adnon says he did (I'm not fact checking this series of events so please, point out mistakes, I'm not emotionally tied to this idea), Get's out of school, hangs out at the library, goes to track.

Jay picks Adnon up having already killed Hea.

I'm going to take a quick timeout here. Jay and Adnon are "weed buddies." If anyone smoked weed in HS you might get the nature of their relationship. Jay picks Adnon up and then they go hunting for some weed, Jay says his boy Patrick is going to hook them up. Adnon is committed to the journey to score some weed...

Jay then drives to specific places and he either makes calls from those places or in one way or another encourages Adnon to make calls from those places, and is sure to be seen by various people with Adnon on the day Hea goes missing. By the time they get to not-Cathy's they scored some weed and went for a drive up to Leakin Park. Jay was sure to get Adnon a couple extra tokes (rolled a fatty and took a few short and or fake hits so Adnon would get more), then stopped by not_Cathy's. Eventually dropping Adnon off at Mosque, albeit possibly later than Adnon remembers getting there.

After Adnon gets dropped off Jay goes up and makes a half-assed effort at disposing of the body, again with Jenn's help.

That's the rushed, non-fact checked outline of my crazy theory I cooked up last night, anyway.

If that was the case then Adnon's entire story makes sense.

If not there are some things I don't understand about what they both said happened. Why in the world, if you just killed your ex-GF, do you cruise around town, score weed, chill at random people's houses, etc. all why you've got a body to dispose of. The only way doing all those things and waiting to dispose of the body makes sense to me is if Jay needs that time to frame Adnon. If they are in this together then I'd imagine they'd be pretty single minded about dealing with the car and the body. Acting a little weird at not-Cathy's would be a monumental feat for me if I was either of them, especially if I was stoned and just chilling there while I had this gruesome, difficult, risky task looming over me. If I'm just Adnon, chilling with my eccentric weed buddy, clueless, then this all makes sense.

EDIT: So I spelled Hae's name wrong every time. Sorry. No disrespect intended.

EDIT: HAHA, and Adnan's. ****, there goes my credibility.
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The ONLY thing that is stopping me short of acquitting Adnan is - why would he not FIGHT harder to claim that he is innocent? It seems to me that he doesn't have a bad word to say about Jay. Jay has talked to the police, shown the car, testified x2 all in an effort to get Adnan to go to prison - and yet he does NOTHING to discredit him.


To me that's very odd. For him to come on Serial and still adamant that he's innocent and yet he has done NOTHING to discredit Jay.
 
ONE LOVE said:
The ONLY thing that is stopping me short of acquitting Adnan is - why would he not FIGHT harder to claim that he is innocent? It seems to me that he doesn't have a bad word to say about Jay. Jay has talked to the police, shown the car, testified x2 all in an effort to get Adnan to go to prison - and yet he does NOTHING to discredit him.


To me that's very odd. For him to come on Serial and still adamant that he's innocent and yet he has done NOTHING to discredit Jay.
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Him being unwilling to say he knows things that according to what he claims he can't really know doesn't bother me at all. Others being upset about his lack of emotion... Just irritates me. The guy has had to cope with 15 years of prison. He's giving a phone interview. I know I would display very little emotion in that setting, I'd just be talking about what happened from my point of view.
 
Gameface said:
Him being unwilling to say he knows things that according to what he claims he can't really know doesn't bother me at all. Others being upset about his lack of emotion... Just irritates me. The guy has had to cope with 15 years of prison. He's giving a phone interview. I know I would display very little emotion in that setting, I'd just be talking about what happened from my point of view.
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I'm not talking about his lack of emotion. I'm talking about his lack of ANYTHING that he could say to discredit Jay's story. It seems he hasn't said 1 thing that could be taken as a contradiction to Jay's story and that is really odd to me.


If someone's running a whole web of lies against you, it's never gonna be bullet proof. Adnan is not a stupid guy - you can tell from the interviews, he is really smart and articulate. It's still puzzling to me that he has done absolutely nothing. He has 15 years to think about all the stories all the details. There has to be SOMETHING you can say.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekL7o8BQkZM
 
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