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1500 Missing Children

I don't think Trump is anything like a white supremacist. Have you ever talked to a white supremacist? To find one, you need practically to go to eastern Washington State or eastern Oregon, though I of one in the rainforest west of Seattle. Trump does deals with folks like Jesse Jackson, union organizers, and gives great speeches when celebrating the finish of a new tower, even those built by fairly well-paid union workers many of whom are black.

I think Trump is trying to talk tough to meet his base, many of whom for excellent reasons want illegal immigration stopped with a border enforced, a wall where needed to stop the nightly influx of illegals, just enough to get the traffic to come to the regular crossing stations. I think the tougher treatment goes for illegals. This has some positive aspects.... we need to stop the lucrative gang business, and stop people from giving them the business, and stop people trying to "cheat" the gangs taking deadly risks in the desert and even being gunned down by the gangs.

A good bill would fund more centers for processing asylum claims near the places these people are coming from. This would be a lot more efficient, and cost less than camps of any kind near our border, and we would do a better job of rejecting false asylum claims, especially those people who really are not "families" but a human trafficker exploiting children (or adults).
 
Fascism is here

Who’s going to these camps next? Blacks? FBI agents and special prosecutor? Political opponents? Intellectuals? You know where this is headed.
 
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The Thriller said:
Trump describing immigrants as “infesting” should ring shockwaves throughout the world. It’s calculated. It’s despicable. And it’s a huge warning sign. Dehumanizing groups of people by describing them in such terms has preceded every genocide of the past 100 years. In particular, the Holocaust and Rwanda.

I know many might look at us social studies folks as being paranoid. But we’re worried for good reason. We are quickly sliding into fascism. Where does this take us and when will the American people decide that they’ve had enough? Will it be too late?

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He's both dehumanizing(referring to refugees as pests) and demonizing refugees(they're all gang members, arriving to murder and rape Americans). This is so easy to recognize as part of a demagogues tool kit. Demagogues appeal to the disaffected and alienated members of their society, identify an"other" that can be demonized and dehumanized, and then they run with that dynamic. It helps bring them to power, and it's the dynamic they use to rally the disaffected and alienated to maintain power.

Now, check out that image that @Bulletproof posted, and witness another part of the demagogues tool kit. Wrapping himself in the flag. In this case, Trump does so literally. It's the demagogue's effort to show that nobody is more patriotic, nobody loves his country more then he.

We should recognize in all of this the obvious parallels with other such leaders from the last century. The exact same dynamic is at work, and to serve this dynamic, the leader is perfectly willing to institute evil policies. None of this should surprise anyone who had eyes to see these parallels....

The cult leader wraps himself in the flag.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...-republicans-upset-over-border-policy-n884816
 
These are refugees from the northern tier of Central American nations. Trump has demonized and dehumanized them. In the separation policy, we simply see the degree that he will go in this dehumanizing campaign. It was painfully easy, and alarming, to understand all this when he ran for the office he now holds. The dynamic was right out there for all to see, particularly if one was informed by a knowledge of history, and a knowledge of how demagogues can come to power within mass democracies undergoing cultural and social changes that often cause fear and anger among elements within that society.

I am not suggesting or predicting that he, or we, are capable of initiating the most extreme measures enacted by that most evil of 20th century leaders. I am simply pointing out the same dynamic is playing out in our country at this time in our history. And ultimately, we need to reject this dynamic. It simply champions and promotes our lesser instincts. It really is a battle for the soul of our nation. If what we see playing out on our southern border is who we really want to be, history will not judge us well. He's doing exactly what he promised he would do, and his meanness and willingness to dehumanize "the other" is an historical dynamic that never ends well.

I would not want to be Jeff Sessions. I would not want to be Steve Miller. Or General Kelly. Or Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. History will not be kind to these enablers. The judgement will be harsh. They have cast their lot, and they, with their President, are on the wrong side of history.

I am editing this to include this statement by Steve Schmidt on why he is leaving the Republican Party. In making the separation policy the last straw, he echoes my opinion exactly. He has eyes to see and ears to hear. Always has:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/steve-schmidt-mccains-campaign-chief-quits-indecent-and-immoral-gop

"In the absence of constitutional checks, Schmidt says Americans reluctantly must cast their eyes toward Europe in the 1930s.

“What are the hallmarks here? He uses mass rallies to incite fervor and followers who are now more like cult members than voters,” he said. “Every problem has an easy group to blame—minorities, chiefly—he creates a sense of mass victimization, he alleges conspiracy by unseen forces, and he asserts that only he can stop it and protect the victims—and stop the villains, the minorities. The last step of this is an assertion: ‘I'll just need more powers to do it.’ And that's how a constitutional republic dies.”
 
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"The Getty Images photographer John Moore has won many photojournalism awards throughout his career, bringing a high level of skill, empathy, professionalism, perseverance, and an amazing eye for beauty and color to all of his work. Moore has spent years working along the U.S.-Mexico border, and regularly travels to Mexico and Central America, covering the many issues that surround the ongoing immigration crisis—its root causes in poverty, violence, and hopelessness; the dream of the United States as a better place for individuals and their children; the hazards of the immigrant’s journey; the pursuits and arrests at the border; the faces of those who choose to defend the border and of those who decide to risk everything to cross it. Gathered here, to give some visual context to Moore’s now-famous image of the young girl crying at the border, a collection of photographs taken by Moore over the past two years along the southern U.S. border, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and more."

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/06/on-the-border-with-photographer-john-moore/563282/
 
I think some people should take a second look at "The Grapes of Wrath." That was a migrant crisis within our own borders. People were exploited, looked down upon and many of them died.

If you haven't read it, give it a go. Then look at these people literally dying to get here and tell yourself one more time that it's their own damn fault.
 
Ask yourself, why isn't the Trump administration permitting journalists to interview these families and photograph these "summer camps?" If these situations really are as awesome as Fox News has claimed, why wouldn't you want journalists to take photographs of these humane places?

Ask yourself, if this really was a law, why can Trump just repeal the law by executive order? Interesting...

Ask yourself, in years past, what would the United States have done to another country that kidnapped children and detained them in cages? What would we think of that country's government? We've leveled sanctions against other countries for doing far less. What do you think the world's perception of us is right now?

Along with the world's perception of us, how will this affect the security of American tourists and businesses? What does this do to Christian missionary efforts? How does the United States conduct foreign policy after losing its moral superiority?
 
An objective look at the refugees showing up at our border would show that the president's portrait of these people as "infesting" our country, as murderers and gang members, is nothing but an effort by Trump to maintain the allegiance of his base, by playing on their fears and anger, with the truth be damned. And if the media exposes this lie, they are branded the fake and failing media, the enemy of the people.

Well, so goes the tool kit of all effective authoritarians. And so goes the cruelty that seems to be a defining trait of #45. But it also helps to take a look back into our history, to find antecedents to the anti-immigrant hysteria that Trump works so hard to maintain among his base.

So, here is how the 19th century Know Nothing Party reshaped American politics. They were America's first major political party, and Trump would have been right at home, since hate doesn't change, it just wears a different mask at different times in our history...

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...society-launched-american-nativism-180961915/

"Like Fight Club, there were rules about joining the secret society known as the Order of the Star Spangled Banner (OSSB). An initiation rite called “Seeing Sam.” The memorization of passwords and hand signs. A solemn pledge never to betray the order. A pureblooded pedigree of Protestant Anglo-Saxon stock and the rejection of all Catholics. And above all, members of the secret society weren’t allowed to talk about the secret society. If asked anything by outsiders, they would respond with, “I know nothing.”

So went the rules of this secret fraternity that rose to prominence in 1853 and transformed into the powerful political party known as the Know Nothings. At its height in the 1850s, the Know Nothing party, originally called the American Party, included more than 100 elected congressmen, eight governors, a controlling share of half-a-dozen state legislatures from Massachusetts to California, and thousands of local politicians. Party members supported deportation of foreign beggars and criminals; a 21-year naturalization period for immigrants; mandatory Bible reading in schools; and the elimination of all Catholics from public office. They wanted to restore their vision of what America should look like with temperance, Protestantism, self-reliance, with American nationality and work ethic enshrined as the nation’s highest values."
 
The “Know Nothing” Party of the 1850s were the original Trumpers. They saw a resurgence with Charles Lindbergh’s “America First” party. And now we see a resurrection of an army of nationalist ignoramuses with Donald Trump.

Sad
 
The Thriller said:
Ask yourself, why isn't the Trump administration permitting journalists to interview these families and photograph these "summer camps?"
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I don't know, just maybe because the pic of the little girl in pink on Time magazine's cover was used to push a false narrative and make Trump (I don't like him) look responsible and like Hitler. Turns out, that little girl's mother abandoned her father, against his will and given to a coyote for 6k (the dad has no idea where the money came from, I have a few good guesses) to be smuggled with no end point in mind. And she was never separated from her mother.

Fake outrage first. Facts second.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the situation but the MSM is pretty damn despicable right now and how they're reporting it. There are so many people riding the big d of sensationalism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-face-child-separation-crisis-speaks-out.html

Time Magazine should be ****ing ashamed, but they won't be. There will be excuses.
 
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I remain a Trump supporter because I see huge problems with the program to oppose him. The age-old warning to those who ever wanted to assassinate a King, or replace any ruler however totalitarian.... is to take care to see that you can put someone better in place. I know the political fact of the day is that our American Constitution is the real target of the highest levels of political organizers who support the dump Trump campaign. When I say I know, in this particular case, I do not qualify it with the least shade of reservation.

So here Time has used a pic of a bawling babe, who in fact was kidnapped by her mother against her father's will and against international family law. The mother endangered her child and herself irresponsibly putting herself and her child in the "care" of violent murderous thugs.... smugglers.... who routinely rape some of their paying customers, and who do in fact murder innocent people who try to cross their turf without paying the money demanded.

1500 "missing children" reported by a US agency trying to track those who have been processed and turned loose inside our country in the care of professional contracting care centers and foster families. Most of those who can't be tracked, I believe, leave that secure care voluntarily. Many of them make to their way to jobs or relatives, mostly in illegal worker employment, substantial numbers in the employment of major Ag producers and similar jobs.... meat packers, feed yards.... and casinnos and motels. Here we have unscrupulous extremely wealthy interests who buy off our politicians and make damn sure we don't fix the problems with their slave worker importation programs.

Given the failure of certain folks in this thread to respond constructively to the facts, I must conclude they are committed to political agendas for whatever reason that are basically attempting to exploit the suffering of people affected by the real circumstances this whole situation entails.
 
babe said:
The age-old warning to those who ever wanted to assassinate a King, or replace any ruler however totalitarian.... is to take care to see that you can put someone better in place.
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Pence would be less embarrassing than Trump, but I agree he might not be any better.
 
Zombie said:


I don't even know what to say at this point.
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How about?
"This situation is close to my heart. I feel for these kids, though I have never been to the border to help out in any way. In fact, the thought hasn’t even crossed my mind. I care so much about these kids that if I could take them in and give them shelter, I probably wouldn’t because it’s super inconvenient for me. However, just posting on Jazzfanz that I care about these kids and don’t want to see them separated from their families places me on a moral high ground and gives me warm fuzzies. I love causes that I can be emotionally invested in, but actually don’t have to take any action. I love these kids, but I’m grateful they are someone else’s problem."

I know that's a bit of an eye-roll, but that's pretty much what I think when I see how outraged people are on social media about this.

I also read this earlier (below) today and it made me think, even though it's written by a guy I had to unfollow because he kept making me cringe by his far- right, bias and religious influences posts.

"How can we have a discussion when half of the people involved in the discussion are open border utopianists who think John Lennon’s “Imagine” offers a practical legislative blueprint? We can’t have a discussion, is the answer. We can only talk in circles and accomplish nothing. And that is what we will continue doing for the foreseeable future."

Personally, I prefer any kids are not detained and separated from their parents at the border. I also prefer to not have their parents sneak into the country unlawfully. I believe a country is only as strong as its borders. We're already on population control here in the US.

I certainly don't have the answer for this and I understand how fortunate I am to be in a country I don't want to flee from.

I wish other countries could get their **** together and take responsibility for their citizens fleeing. However, that is wishful thinking.
 
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