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2020 Presidential election

Gameface said:
So since Hillary isn't President there's no reason to vote for Trump? Might as well vote for a boring person like Warren?
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Explain the 52 trillion dollars Medicare package in detail for me and I might. Taxing the rich and big business? Yeah we think Trump's tariffs are bad. There's no possible way this doesn't tax the hell out of you and me. You really think they aren't going to get that money back somehow?

Also explain after that the tens of trillions of dollars for free schooling and then the tens of trillions for environmental protection. Where's this money coming from? What happens if the rich move out or business move to somewhere cheap?

I'm for it all but you have to have went to college to understand it's economically impossible. We can't even pay off our debt.
 
JazzyFresh said:
Explain the 52 trillion dollars Medicare package in detail for me and I might. Taxing the rich and big business? Yeah we think Trump's tariffs are bad. There's no possible way this doesn't tax the hell out of you and me.
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The taxes replace health insurance premiums, and wind up a net positive overall to taxpayer's take-home pay.
 
JazzyFresh said:
But Warren is saying the middle class won't be taxed. So is she lying?
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Well the problem is that if she says taxes will go up for the middle class but they will actually get to keep more of their money (because they won't be paying insurance premiums and co pays and healthcare overall will just be much cheaper) then all people on the right (and some on the left) will see and talk about is the tax increase. Which will hurt her chances of getting elected.

Sadly we are too dumb to see that taxes can go up and we can actually get to keep more of our money.

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One Brow said:
The taxes replace health insurance premiums, and wind up a net positive overall to taxpayer's take-home pay.
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Republicans focus on the costs of universal health care and environmental protection. But they ALWAYS do this without ever mentioning that the costs of doing nothing. We saw this with Obamacare, when republicans whines about its costs. The reality? Obamacare actually saved the country money as the status quo was far more expensive. A point Republicans never acknowledged.

* Our health care system remains the most expensive in the world in large part due to not having the entire population on one system and/or universally covered.

* The costs of programs like the GND are always touted as being “unaffordable” and “unrealistic.” Well, studies are showing that living in many parts of our country in the next few decades will be unrealistic too if nothing significant is done to limit the effects of climate change. Yet again, a point republicans fail to acknowledge.

But then again, these are the intellectual geniuses we’re dealing with:

 
fishonjazz said:
Well the problem is that if she says taxes will go up for the middle class but they will actually get to keep more of their money (because they won't be paying insurance premiums and co pays and healthcare overall will just be much cheaper) then all people on the right (and some on the left) will see and talk about is the tax increase. Which will hurt her chances of getting elected.

Sadly we are too dumb to see that taxes can go up and we can actually get to keep more of our money.

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Explain it to me in detail.

Hilarious that she has to straight faced lie and you're ok with it.
 
For those of you wondering, Canada has a M4A program. It costs a mere 10 percent of their GDP and covers everyone. The United States spends 18 percent of its GDP on health care that can’t even cover everyone and gets worse outcomes by most measurables. But hey, it enriches a handful of lucky big pharm and insurance ceos.

this is a pretty fair article explaining the two:

https://khn.org/news/looking-north-can-a-single-payer-health-system-work-in-the-u-s/
 
JazzyFresh said:
Explain it to me in detail.

Hilarious that she has to straight faced lie and you're ok with it.
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I won't go into great detail but here an easy example.
I pay about 520 dollars per month in healthcare premiums. (My company pays something like 3500 dollars per month in healthcare premiums.)

So if my taxes go up by $300 per month it would seem like a crappy thing. However if my insurance premiums went away then I would actually be saving $200 dollars per month even though I'm getting taxed $300 more per month. ($520 in insurance minus $300 more in taxes = a net gain of $220 dollars into my wallet)


Also if the ultra rich were simply taxed fairly and actually had to pay their taxes (didn't use loopholes and hide their money in offshore accounts etc) then the middle class might not even need to be taxed at all.
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Saying you will raise taxes, even if it would actually be better and we would get more money, is political suicide.

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fishonjazz said:
I won't go into great detail but here an easy example.
I pay about 520 dollars per month in healthcare premiums. (My company pays something like 3500 dollars per month in healthcare premiums.)

So if my taxes go up by $300 per month it would seem like a crappy thing. However if my insurance premiums went away then I would actually be saving $200 dollars per month even though I'm getting taxed $300 more per month. ($520 in insurance minus $300 more in taxes = a net gain of $220 dollars into my wallet)


Also if there ultra rich were simply taxed fairly and actually had to pay their taxes (didn't use loopholes and hide their money in offshore accounts etc) then the middle class might not even need to be taxed at all.
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You paying $300 a month is worth 52 trillion? Lol, no man.
 
fishonjazz said:
I won't go into great detail but here an easy example.
I pay about 520 dollars per month in healthcare premiums. (My company pays something like 3500 dollars per month in healthcare premiums.)

So if my taxes go up by $300 per month it would seem like a crappy thing. However if my insurance premiums went away then I would actually be saving $200 dollars per month even though I'm getting taxed $300 more per month. ($520 in insurance minus $300 more in taxes = a net gain of $220 dollars into my wallet)


Also if the ultra rich were simply taxed fairly and actually had to pay their taxes (didn't use loopholes and hide their money in offshore accounts etc) then the middle class might not even need to be taxed at all.
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this is a good explanation. But I’m sure those from the other tribe will still disagree and argue with you or pretend that they didn’t understand this post. theyll pretend that they don’t understand how this saves money
 
fishonjazz said:
Yes.
I made the point that Americans are too dumb to understand the concept of getting taxed more and at the same time saving money.
You did a great job proving that point.

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K crunch the numbers for me since it's so easy.

52 trillion for medical alone.
100+ billion annually for schooling
30+trillion for environmental protection.
 
JazzyFresh said:
K crunch the numbers for me since it's so easy.

52 trillion for medical alone.
100+ billion annually for schooling
30+trillion for environmental protection.
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Nah, you are impossible to have an intelligent conversation with.
Better to just lie to you.

Taxes won't increase. Warren has it right lol.

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fishonjazz said:
Nah, you are impossible to have an intelligent conversation with.
Better to just lie to you.

Taxes won't increase. Warren has it right lol.

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I'll just accept you can't. I don't think what I'm asking warrants your childish insults bit it's your go to. I'm asking how we're going to pay for all of this. Again I think it's a valid question, and I think a majority of smart American voters are asking the same.

Your answer. Calling people stupid because YOU cant answer our questions. Warren is lying to you, not me. I know I'll be taxed.
 
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JazzyFresh said:
I'll just accept you can't. I don't think what I'm asking warrants your childish insults bit it's your go to. I'm asking how we're going to pay for all of this. Again I think it's a valid question, and I think a majority of smart American voters are asking the same.

Your answer. Calling people stupid because YOU cant answer our questions. Warren is lying to you, not me. I know I'll be taxed.
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I will explain how healthcare will be paid for in a way you can understand and also will be more likely to believe.

Mexico will pay for our healthcare

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