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2020 Presidential election

Gameface said:
100% agree!!!!!

I'm tired of these elementary school kids taking their free education for granted. Put their lazy asses to work at the factory!
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Yeah! Damn freeloaders!
 
One Brow said:
Why is loading our young workers with enormous debt better for us as a country?
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It's not. The real problem is school just isn't affordable. Free college is a great idea, but there's a bill to collect somewhere and that's going to fall on the taxpayer.

0% APR loans, cheaper tuition and getting rid of two years of general education classes would be a great start.
 
Avery said:
It's not. The real problem is school just isn't affordable. Free college is a great idea, but there's a bill to collect somewhere and that's going to fall on the taxpayer.

0% APR loans, cheaper tuition and getting rid of two years of general education classes would be a great start.
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Those general ed classes are wicked important for a lot of students. As someone who worked in the belly of that beast for a long time, I can’t imagine that the upper-level classes would work without them.
 
NAOS said:
Those general ed classes are wicked important for a lot of students. As someone who worked in the belly of that beast for a long time, I can’t imagine that the upper-level classes would work without them.
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To a point I agree. But appreciation of cinema, 1 and 2? Interpretive dance? Classes like this for the credit is just filler and useless to 99% of students in the grand scheme of their school careers and lives. They need to at least have gen Ed classes that support a chosen major more than provide some esoteric "broad-based" education. Reducing the gen Ed requirements and focusing them could also cut down the cost and better prepare students for higher level courses imo.
 
LogGrad98 said:
To a point I agree. But appreciation of cinema, 1 and 2? Interpretive dance? Classes like this for the credit is just filler and useless to 99% of students in the grand scheme of their school careers and lives. They need to at least have gen Ed classes that support a chosen major more than provide some esoteric "broad-based" education. Reducing the gen Ed requirements and focusing them could also cut down the cost and better prepare students for higher level courses imo.
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Hey I took golf and bowling in college and the skills I learned in those classes have helped me immensely as a quality control technician. (I haven't golfed in years and I only bowl a couple times per year btw)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LogGrad98 said:
To a point I agree. But appreciation of cinema, 1 and 2? Interpretive dance? Classes like this for the credit is just filler and useless to 99% of students in the grand scheme of their school careers and lives. They need to at least have gen Ed classes that support a chosen major more than provide some esoteric "broad-based" education. Reducing the gen Ed requirements and focusing them could also cut down the cost and better prepare students for higher level courses imo.
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Lots of things to say in reply...

First, your general perspective here comes across as very careerist. I can tell you without a shade of uncertainty that when students enter college, they need to learn how to be an adult human being...the extreme majority of them are literally just getting started.

Second, go gather some statistics about the percentage of students who know their major going in, and those that change their major at least once. Based on my experience, I’m very weary of students who seem totally sure what their major is going in.

Third, an appreciation of film, if taught well, could absolutely change the outlook of a student. At this point, how much of our reality is mediated by televisual imagery? Hacking into that **** is getting more vital, not less. Also, a degree in film studies can set you up for lucrative jobs in the film and entertainment industries. This is precisely what happened for me, after taking intro to film aa an elective at the U of U.

If you’re looking for fat to trim off the education system, I’d look more in the direction of high school. The mandatory, institutional nature of that environment is sapping our youth; they often come into college worn down by it, or with a significant load of false confidence because of their testing or some ****. If I had a kid that age, I would really encourage one of the many alternative scenarios wherein he/she would start self-selecting what and when they were learning by around 14 years old.

I could go on.
 
NAOS said:
Lots of things to say in reply...

First, your general perspective here comes across as very careerist. I can tell you without a shade of uncertainty that when students enter college, they need to learn how to be an adult human being...the extreme majority of them are literally just getting started.

Second, go gather some statistics about the percentage of students who know their major going in, and those that change their major at least once. Based on my experience, I’m very weary of students who seem totally sure what their major is going in.

Third, an appreciation of film, if taught well, could absolutely change the outlook of a student. At this point, how much of our reality is mediated by televisual imagery? Hacking into that **** is getting more vital, not less. Also, a degree in film studies can set you up for lucrative jobs in the film and entertainment industries. This is precisely what happened for me, after taking intro to film aa an elective at the U of U.

If you’re looking for fat to trim off the education system, I’d look more in the direction of high school. The mandatory, institutional nature of that environment is sapping our youth; they often come into college worn down by it, or with a significant load of false confidence because of their testing or some ****. If I had a kid that age, I would really encourage one of the many alternative scenarios wherein he/she would start self-selecting what and when they were learning by around 14 years old.

I could go on.
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I fully agree with what you're saying here, especially about high school and about the state of most kids as they enter college. I still think revamping of the general Ed requirements would be beneficial. Even if it can't be tied directly to a major, I feel like there is improvement that can be made there. Like you said, appreciation of Cinema, if taught correctly, can expand someone's Outlook, but I really wonder how often it is taught correctly. Are there universal standards around the country to ensure that a class like this is taught correctly? Do we even really have a good grasp of what teaching a class like this correctly would look like? I know when I took it the professor more or less said, go watch this movie and write a review like you would see in the paper. Then when we turned it in he would return it to us telling us where we were wrong because we disagreed with him. And having some discussions with friends about this and other gen Ed classes, including my daughter who is in college right now, their experiences were largely the same. So yes I absolutely agree students need some breadth in their Early college education, but there are definitely improvements to be made there.

But on the topic of high school, we have found it largely to be a cumbersome joke. My youngest daughter just graduated as the class of 2020, and for much of her High School experience she felt exactly as you expressed it. I don't feel anything in her classes did a good job of preparing her for college or any kind of Life after High School. Our education system in general has a lot of improving to do to catch up with many of the countries leading the pack.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I fully agree with what you're saying here, especially about high school and about the state of most kids as they enter college. I still think revamping of the general Ed requirements would be beneficial. Even if it can't be tied directly to a major, I feel like there is improvement that can be made there. Like you said, appreciation of Cinema, if taught correctly, can expand someone's Outlook, but I really wonder how often it is taught correctly. Are there universal standards around the country to ensure that a class like this is taught correctly? Do we even really have a good grasp of what teaching a class like this correctly would look like? I know when I took it the professor more or less said, go watch this movie and write a review like you would see in the paper. Then when we turned it in he would return it to us telling us where we were wrong because we disagreed with him. And having some discussions with friends about this and other gen Ed classes, including my daughter who is in college right now, their experiences were largely the same. So yes I absolutely agree students need some breadth in their Early college education, but there are definitely improvements to be made there.

But on the topic of high school, we have found it largely to be a cumbersome joke. My youngest daughter just graduated as the class of 2020, and for much of her High School experience she felt exactly as you expressed it. I don't feel anything in her classes did a good job of preparing her for college or any kind of Life after High School. Our education system in general has a lot of improving to do to catch up with many of the countries leading the pack.
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I definitely think there are improvements that can be made. The biggest problems to overcome are (a) the size of institutions, (b) their business-like objectives around growing the size of the student bodies (undergrad through post-doc)—rather than something that is more concretely merit-based and supported from matriculation through post-graduate hiring, and (c) turning themselves into R&D farms for local corporations. These three things, in particular, make it hard to monitor and care about so-called “fringe” classes or “remedial education” (I’d strike both terms from the mouths of any university).

I wouldn’t argue for universal standards. I’d make sure that the leadership of the University has the institution pointed toward the right objectives, and that the teachers were being paid a living wage. We’re failing pretty wildly on both accounts at most universities.
 
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Political Jazz Fan said:
Some good news that the mainstream news won't tell you:
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Yeah, never

www.cnbc.com

Homebuilders see strongest May sales in over a decade, but they have a big problem

Sales of newly built homes jumped far more than expected in May, according to the U.S. Census. After slowing dramatically in March, as the coronavirus shut down the economy, they posted the strongest May pace since 2007, a recovery that surprised even the builders themselves. But housing starts...
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

but seriously, it took me five seconds to disprove you.

Do you ever test your beliefs? Ever try to prove yourself wrong?

You are going through an ignorance filled life, don't you want to change that?

It can be uncomfortable, but isn't it better than being permanently stupid?
 
silesian said:
Yeah, never

www.cnbc.com

Homebuilders see strongest May sales in over a decade, but they have a big problem

Sales of newly built homes jumped far more than expected in May, according to the U.S. Census. After slowing dramatically in March, as the coronavirus shut down the economy, they posted the strongest May pace since 2007, a recovery that surprised even the builders themselves. But housing starts...
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

but seriously, it took me five seconds to disprove you.

Do you ever test your beliefs? Ever try to prove yourself wrong?

You are going through an ignorance filled life, don't you want to change that?

It can be uncomfortable, but isn't it better than being permanently stupid?
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Exercise that Ignore List bro
 
fishonjazz said:
Hey I took golf and bowling in college and the skills I learned in those classes have helped me immensely as a quality control technician. (I haven't golfed in years and I only bowl a couple times per year btw)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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I took skiing, billiards and basketball in college, it is good to have some fun. Even in college, social aspects still need to be learned, and having a balance is good for mental health. I took 18 credits every fall, 9 credits every spring (skied three days and went to school two days) and took a couple summer online courses to stay on schedule. If I could go back in time, I would have taken my summers off and stayed in school another year. One of the best periods of my life. Time rich and cash poor and I loved it.

I think eventually this country will go towards more subsidies for college, and eventually free. I think a good start is super discounted community college (maybe free based on meeting qualifications-idea below), and low cost for the additional two years at a university. I don't think it should all be free. People need to value their education. Degrees beyond a bachelors should be less subsidized. As I said above, I just don't want it to turn into free private education. We need reform, and need to bring these high cost schools in line, not provide them even more money with no checks.

I also think we need to retrofit our high schools to make grades 11/12 to include 50% college level courses available as the status quo (students could opt out-college is not for everyone, but make it the norm). And if you take these courses, not only do you get a free year of college (possible to get a year of college credit in HS currently, but not emphasized as much as it should be), you could also get a bonus free year or two years of state college as a automatic scholarship for those students that take advantage of the high school program. Maybe year 2 free, and year three and four 50% off. Essentially reward students for working hard, which will take burden off the taxpayers of subsidizing college for an additional year, etc. Use this as an opportunity to provide qualified teachers to get paid more in high school if they get the extra training and qualifications to teach these upper level courses. I say this as someone who slacked off in high school and felt like I was being babysat and not taught. I was going to a state university, so had no real advantage for working super hard at the time.

I also think any discounts/free college should only apply for the requisite number of years needed to graduate. So if you take 6 years to get through a four year program, years 5-6 cost you and not the taxpayer.

This obviously doesn't take into account the lack of opportunity/poor secondary school programs/etc., in many parts of the country, but that is a whole other discussion.
 
silesian said:
It must be frustrating having absolutely nothing sticking to Joe Biden.

But the stink of desperation is pretty rotten
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Sure, PJF is off his rocker, but nothing sticking to Biden? Yeah, sexual assault accusations is not a big deal.

Imagine if Trump "whitesplained" to a black person that they aren't black if they don't vote for him like Biden did. Biden is the lesser of two evils, but that doesn't make him good. Does anyone truly like him? Sure, he secures the nomination for the Dems, but is it worth it? Dems protected Clinton and now Biden. Rhinos do the same for Trump and Kavanaugh. With the outrage Dems had regarding Kavanaugh (and rightly so), their silence regarding the accusations against Biden show it was all political.

No matter what barrel you put your ladle in, the water is dirty.
 
Avery said:
It's not. The real problem is school just isn't affordable. Free college is a great idea, but there's a bill to collect somewhere and that's going to fall on the taxpayer.

0% APR loans, cheaper tuition and getting rid of two years of general education classes would be a great start.
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This. You can't put that preposterous bill of $60,000-80,000 onto the taxpayer. Also think of the men and women who sacrificed so much to get their tuition paid off the last 10 years, do they get anything? No? That's bending them over a barrel.
 
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