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2023 NBA Draft Megathread

KqWIN said:
Based on my tiers, I’d be super happy if we get two guys in tier 4 and up (13 total players). But tbh, I wouldn’t be upset with the guys in tier 5 with our second pick (19 total). So I think we’re sitting in a good position. I don’t feel strongly enough that we should move into tier 3 for Jarace or Cam even though I like them a bit more than the tier 4 guys.

For our third selection, I’d be content with anyone tier 6 and above (26 players). Cutting it close if NBA GM’s are drafting chalk from my immaculate draft board….but I figure we could get one.

Im not too enthusiastic about the value of anyone lower right now unless I missed something. It’s kind if a crapshoot after tier 6 for me. I could maybe see trading some future seconds to leap some spots for a tier 5 player.

Draft stock is gonna change a ton, but if the draft were today I think my plan would be:

1) Take your choice from Tier 4. But probably not Bilal because he is so much lower on draft boards.

2) Hope another tier 4 guy is available, if not just secure Bilal with the TWolves pick.

3) I think Bufkin or Clowney could fall to the Sixers pick. If not draft anyone left from tier 5 or your favorite from Tier 6.

An ideal draft would be something like:

Cason
Bilal
Clowney

Or

Hendricks
Hawkins
Bufkin
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Didn’t read the whole thing but I really like door #2.

I like Bilal but I think we can snag him with the Philly pick. Lots of nba teams are cowards and I’ll bet they take more proven guys from more reliable origins before they pick him. I like Wallace and Black but I think if Hendo is around at 9 he’d be my pick and I think pg is more of a current need we should address in FA… if the Minny pick can get us Wallace or Black I’d be real happy though. I’d still want a stop gap solution.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Didn’t read the whole thing but I really like door #2.

I like Bilal but I think we can snag him with the Philly pick. Lots of nba teams are cowards and I’ll bet they take more proven guys from more reliable origins before they pick him. I like Wallace and Black but I think if Hendo is around at 9 he’d be my pick and I think pg is more of a current need we should address in FA… if the Minny pick can get us Wallace or Black I’d be real happy though. I’d still want a stop gap solution.
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I thought you would :p The TL/DR is: There are 13 guys I'd be thrilled to get with our first two picks. 19 guys I'd be content with for our first two picks. 26 guys I'd be content with for our 3 picks.

Bilal is the guy I know I'm irrationally high on, and he's still a guy I'm thinking rises as the draft gets closer. He and Bufkin are two that are most obviously ranked too low for me at the moment for me. If it turns out we can snag him with the Philly pick that would be golden. I'd give him the promise right now and ask him to not meet any other teams.

I convinced we have to draft a PG because I'm convinced anyone that plays PG for Will Hardy and with Lauri is just gonna be great.
 
KqWIN said:
I thought you would :p The TL/DR is: There are 13 guys I'd be thrilled to get with our first two picks. 19 guys I'd be content with for our first two picks. 26 guys I'd be content with for our 3 picks.

Bilal is the guy I know I'm irrationally high on, and he's still a guy I'm thinking rises as the draft gets closer. He and Bufkin are two that are most obviously ranked too low for me at the moment for me. If it turns out we can snag him with the Philly pick that would be golden. I'd give him the promise right now and ask him to not meet any other teams.

I convinced we have to draft a PG because I'm convinced anyone that plays PG for Will Hardy and with Lauri is just gonna be great.
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I believe we have been mentioned with Bilal a couple times. If we LOVED him I think you just go make a promise and shut him down for workouts. Take him with the Philly pick... he might shut down or might not but a lot of foreign guys may not want to go in the second round and do the dance where they might bring you over or not.

I think Bufkin is more likely to hit the lotto than be available with the Philly pick. If we have an opportunity to move up to the late teens by consolidating some draft capital I would probably do it.

I actually liked your tiers and did look through it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I believe we have been mentioned with Bilal a couple times. If we LOVED him I think you just go make a promise and shut him down for workouts. Take him with the Philly pick... he might shut down or might not but a lot of foreign guys may not want to go in the second round and do the dance where they might bring you over or not.

I think Bufkin is more likely to hit the lotto than be available with the Philly pick. If we have an opportunity to move up to the late teens by consolidating some draft capital I would probably do it.

I actually liked your tiers and did look through it.
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I agree on Bufkin, I think he's more realistically a candidate for the MIN pick but he might go even higher. I don't know why he's so low. Looks great on paper, looks great on film, positional size, youth etc. It wouldn't surprise me to see him taken above one of Keyonte/Black/Cason. I think he deserves the hype JHS has gotten.

I think there's a decent argument to take Hendo just because there's not really a prospect like him. Like if you pass on Black/Wallace/George you can get Bufkin/JHS (if you like him) or one of the first three will fall. If you pass on Dick, you can get another shooter like Hawkins/Jett/Brice/Whitehead with the Minny pick. I don't think there's really an alternative player to Hendricks. Maybe Bilal is the closest, but I wouldn't call them similar prospects. Some would argue GG, but that's a no for me. There isn't that combo of size, athleticism, shooting coming from anyone else.

I'm sure Danny has strong opinions on who the best is at each player type, so he's probably just going to get his guy instead anyways.
 
KqWIN said:
I agree on Bufkin, I think he's more realistically a candidate for the MIN pick but he might go even higher. I don't know why he's so low. Looks great on paper, looks great on film, positional size, youth etc. It wouldn't surprise me to see him taken above one of Keyonte/Black/Cason. I think he deserves the hype JHS has gotten.

I think there's a decent argument to take Hendo just because there's not really a prospect like him. Like if you pass on Black/Wallace/George you can get Bufkin/JHS (if you like him) or one of the first three will fall. If you pass on Dick, you can get another shooter like Hawkins/Jett/Brice/Whitehead with the Minny pick. I don't think there's really an alternative player to Hendricks. Maybe Bilal is the closest, but I wouldn't call them similar prospects. Some would argue GG, but that's a no for me.

I'm sure Danny has strong opinions on who the best is at each player type, so he's probably just going to get his guy instead anyways.
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Basically my thoughts... I think Hendo and Walker have some similarities... I prefer Hendo personally... but there isn't a replacement if you pass on him... and there are a few options at pg/combo guard that are intriguing with the pick in the Minny range. Might also see someone drop that is really interesting.

But yes... Danny won't view it like that... he won't see those guys as roughly equivalent... most likely anyway. There is a chance he likes both Wallace/Black and Bufkin/George similarly though as they kinda project as the similar player types. I'd have JHS firmly behind all of them.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Basically my thoughts... I think Hendo and Walker have some similarities... I prefer Hendo personally... but there isn't a replacement if you pass on him... and there are a few options at pg/combo guard that are intriguing with the pick in the Minny range. Might also see someone drop that is really interesting.

But yes... Danny won't view it like that... he won't see those guys as roughly equivalent... most likely anyway. There is a chance he likes both Wallace/Black and Bufkin/George similarly though as they kinda project as the similar player types. I'd have JHS firmly behind all of them.
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The Jarace comparison is kinda interesting. After giving more thought, my main takeaway is that they are more different than my initial pass. I just feel like Hendricks is more of a wing and Jarace is a 4/5 big man combo, but I'm curious to know how you feel about it as the leader of the Hendo cult. I think the upside on Hendricks is that he's kind of the player that Jabari Smith was supposed to/could be and Jarace's upside scenario is more like Bam.
 
KqWIN said:
The Jarace comparison is kinda interesting. After giving more thought, my main takeaway is that they are more different than my initial pass. I just feel like Hendricks is more of a wing and Jarace is a 4/5 big man combo, but I'm curious to know how you feel about it as the leader of the Hendo cult. I think the upside on Hendricks is that he's kind of the player that Jabari Smith was supposed to/could be and Jarace's upside scenario is more like Bam.
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First of all... this cult has two leaders @Bodhi and I are working together to brainwash people. I literally said the same thing.. Hendo is a 3/4 and Walker is a 4/5. I am skeptical on Walker's shooting. I don't have any concerns on Hendo there. He shoots it set, off some movement and even does a little work in the midrange with it off a dribble or two. I think he has less creation ability than Jarace, but kind of like Julius Randle... like the creation is good for his size but how much of it do you really want?

I think Hendo isn't like some brilliant passer but he makes quick good reads and moves the ball along. I think he will have success as a roll man and as a pick and pop guy. The helpside rim protection is real. He has great instincts and anticipation. He stays with perimeter guys pretty well.

Here is what my hope is for Taylor... I think he can be a John Collins type but if John was excellent at the things you valued most - shooting, secondary rim protection, etc. I know its dumb but he seems like a humble, smart kid, who seems very coachable. A guy that buys into UCF and raves about his coach and the opportunity he was given... versus a dude like GG.... like i think you give this kid to Hardy and the development team and they can do some **** to focus on his positives and tease out more as a playmaker and roll man.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
First of all... this cult has two leaders @Bodhi and I are working together to brainwash people. I literally said the same thing.. Hendo is a 3/4 and Walker is a 4/5. I am skeptical on Walker's shooting. I don't have any concerns on Hendo there. He shoots it set, off some movement and even does a little work in the midrange with it off a dribble or two. I think he has less creation ability than Jarace, but kind of like Julius Randle... like the creation is good for his size but how much of it do you really want?

I think Hendo isn't like some brilliant passer but he makes quick good reads and moves the ball along. I think he will have success as a roll man and as a pick and pop guy. The helpside rim protection is real. He has great instincts and anticipation. He stays with perimeter guys pretty well.

Here is what my hope is for Taylor... I think he can be a John Collins type but if John was excellent at the things you valued most - shooting, secondary rim protection, etc. I know its dumb but he seems like a humble, smart kid, who seems very coachable. A guy that buys into UCF and raves about his coach and the opportunity he was given... versus a dude like GG.... like i think you give this kid to Hardy and the development team and they can do some **** to focus on his positives and tease out more as a playmaker and roll man.
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The main reason I have Jarace ahead is because of the defense. I think Jarace is going to be good protecting the rim, guarding bigger guys, smaller guys. I think he's really complete. Hendo, I think he's going to be effective as an off ball playmaker but more questionable on the ball against both bigger and smaller guys. But off ball defense is most important to me anyways.

I saw you mention John Collins before and I get it. I would hesitate to make that comparison because I still believe that John Collins is a dominant roll man. Even with 9 fingers I think he would be one of the best in the league as a primary roll man. I know you are not comparing Hendo to Collins for this reason.....I feel like Collins is an inside -> out player and Hendricks is an outside -> in player. More like Lauri I guess? Tall shooter with rim protection is rare. I think Clowney is more like Collins (do I have a bad bias towards these guys?), Hendricks more like Lauri.

Ultimately I think Jarace is going to be better on the ball, both on offense and defense. But Hendricks is going to provide a ton of value away from the ball on both ends. I don't totally buy him as a shot creator or on ball defender....which is fine. Lauri is freaking amazing and it's because of what he does away from the ball on both ends.
 
KqWIN said:
The main reason I have Jarace ahead is because of the defense. I think Jarace is going to be good protecting the rim, guarding bigger guys, smaller guys. I think he's really complete. Hendo, I think he's going to be effective as an off ball playmaker but more questionable on the ball against both bigger and smaller guys. But off ball defense is most important to me anyways.

I saw you mention John Collins before and I get it. I would hesitate to make that comparison because I still believe that John Collins is a dominant roll man. Even with 9 fingers I think he would be one of the best in the league as a primary roll man. I know you are not comparing Hendo to Collins for this reason.....I feel like Collins is an inside -> out player and Hendricks is an outside -> in player. More like Lauri I guess? Tall shooter with rim protection is rare. I think Clowney is more like Collins (do I have a bad bias towards these guys?), Hendricks more like Lauri.

Ultimately I think Jarace is going to be better on the ball, both on offense and defense. But Hendricks is going to provide a ton of value away from the ball on both ends. I don't totally buy him as a shot creator or on ball defender....which is fine. Lauri is freaking amazing and it's because of what he does away from the ball on both ends.
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I think this is all fair. If we didn't have Kessler I think I'd like Jarace more... there might be a lot of situations where that is true though. I think Jarace almost certainly is drafted before Hendo so its not like it will really be a choice for us... but if it was I would choose Hendo.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
First of all... this cult has two leaders @Bodhi and I are working together to brainwash people. I literally said the same thing.. Hendo is a 3/4 and Walker is a 4/5. I am skeptical on Walker's shooting. I don't have any concerns on Hendo there. He shoots it set, off some movement and even does a little work in the midrange with it off a dribble or two. I think he has less creation ability than Jarace, but kind of like Julius Randle... like the creation is good for his size but how much of it do you really want?

I think Hendo isn't like some brilliant passer but he makes quick good reads and moves the ball along. I think he will have success as a roll man and as a pick and pop guy. The helpside rim protection is real. He has great instincts and anticipation. He stays with perimeter guys pretty well.

Here is what my hope is for Taylor... I think he can be a John Collins type but if John was excellent at the things you valued most - shooting, secondary rim protection, etc. I know its dumb but he seems like a humble, smart kid, who seems very coachable. A guy that buys into UCF and raves about his coach and the opportunity he was given... versus a dude like GG.... like i think you give this kid to Hardy and the development team and they can do some **** to focus on his positives and tease out more as a playmaker and roll man.
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Walker is 10x more "3" capable than Hendricks.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He may not be a guy who has an all-star ceiling but hopefully he can be a super-glue, all-star in his role, type dude. There is a lot he can hang his hat on.
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People will say GG has the all star ceiling because stylistically he plays like all star (but sucks at it). Even if GG becomes a high level offensive player, like Cristian Wood, he's still not close to an all star if he continues to suck at everything else.

I'd argue that someone like Hendricks has more high upside potential because he has things he can hang his hat on. If Hendricks makes a major development in his shot creation and/or playmaking he can easily be an all star because the rest of his game is there. He has a chance to make that development because he will actually be on the court. GG needs a massive jump to get average at the only thing he does, and the he needs like a million other massive leaps to be an all star level player. One way to look at potential is to imagine how things go if everything goes right. The other way is to look at how many things need to go right to be an all star. That list is wayyyy shorter for Hendricks.

I know GG is younger, but Hendricks gives me the impression of a late bloomer and GG is likely an early bloomer. I expect future development to be more rapid for a late bloomer.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Walker is 10x more "3" capable than Hendricks.
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Not sure how you measure it but I actually have it as Hendo being 20x more "3" capable.

I'm not as rigid with positions... but one of the key tenets I believe is that you are more flexible as a player if you can shoot. You can play with more player types and in more lineups/arrangement. I am not sure Walker can shoot it well enough to do that. If you have a "3" that can't shoot you will need bigs that do... finding bigs with shooting abilities that are also good on defense is hard.
 
KqWIN said:
People will say GG has the all star ceiling because stylistically he plays like all star (but sucks at it). Even if GG becomes a high level offensive player, like Cristian Wood, he's still not close to an all star if he continues to suck at everything else.

I'd argue that someone like Hendricks has more high upside potential because he has things he can hang his hat on. If Hendricks makes a major development in his shot creation and/or playmaking he can easily be an all star because the rest of his game is there. He has a chance to make that development because he will actually be on the court. GG needs a massive jump to get average at the only thing he does, and the he needs like a million other massive leaps to be an all star level player. One way to look at potential is to imagine how things go if everything goes right. The other way is to look at how many things need to go right to be an all star. That list is wayyyy shorter for Hendricks.

I know GG is younger, but Hendricks gives me the impression of a late bloomer and GG is likely an early bloomer. I expect future development to be more rapid for a late bloomer.
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Right... I think Taylor will have an opportunity to build out his game... because he has a handful of skills and tools that will allow him to be a good nba player and get playing time. A guy that needs to dial back and develop the details may have a harder time. IF GG was efficient, it would be a whole different convo.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Not sure how you measure it but I actually have it as Hendo being 20x more "3" capable.

I'm not as rigid with positions... but one of the key tenets I believe is that you are more flexible as a player if you can shoot. You can play with more player types and in more lineups/arrangement. I am not sure Walker can shoot it well enough to do that. If you have a "3" that can't shoot you will need bigs that do... finding bigs with shooting abilities that are also good on defense is hard.
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It comes down to defense. Walker can get in a low stance and stay with guys. Walker is going to be a guy who you put him on the star wing. Not switching, but main assignment.

Hendricks defensive strength is going to be help side defense and should be a decent switching defensive player, but he won't be on Walkers level of lockdown capability. Also think Walker will be a better help side defender as well.

Shooting is obviously on Hendricks side, and probably will always be (assuming he's good enough to be on the court, which Walker obviously will be). I do think Walker will end up being a good shooter though.
 
If you start a list of skills you need from a "3" you would like start that list with shooting. Just saying.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It comes down to defense. Walker can get in a low stance and stay with guys. Walker is going to be a guy who you put him on the star wing. Not switching, but main assignment.

Hendricks defensive strength is going to be help side defense and should be a decent switching defensive player, but he won't be on Walkers level of lockdown capability. Also think Walker will be a better help side defender as well.

Shooting is obviously on Hendricks side, and probably will always be (assuming he's good enough to be on the court, which Walker obviously will be). I do think Walker will end up being a good shooter though.
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eh... there aren't many lockdown defenders these days... you can also run some picks and remove their lockdown ability. The difference as help defenders isn't nearly as big as the difference as shooters imo.

I get it though... I'm in the minority here. I like both guys.
 
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