In what universe does having GG almost 10 spots higher than Hendricks make any sense?
2023 NBA Draft Megathread
- Thread starter Ferguson_Mellochill
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In what universe does having GG almost 10 spots higher than Hendricks make any sense?
I'd still have Keegan around the range probably if I did a re-draft so I think I did a great job on that one.
In the same universe where one has individual shot creation upside and age (13 months) and the other doesnt.
The one where GG has All Star potential and Hendricks doesn't. But you'd need to be a team who cares about that stuff.
Bawse Dawg
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I like seeing a different kind of board. Especially when it’s someone who I know is putting in the work scouting wise and has shown to be pretty savvy at this stuff in the past.
Obviously he’ll be wrong about some. But so will the consensus board. Being different from consensus doesn’t inherently make it bad.
Handlogten's Heros
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Its kind of hilarious to me that some of the dudes on here that are all hyped about GG's individual creation are the same dudes that complain about JC and Sexton. The points are the same whether you are 6-9 or 6-4.
Hendricks is a versatile and committed defender, while GG isn't (yet).
Hendricks projects to be a willing spot-up shooter who doesn't need the ball, while GG is someone you'd draft because he wants the ball.
No one is complaining about Clarkson or Sexton getting buckets, especially on a team that has few bucket-getters.
Handlogten's Heros
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There is a long line of dudes that want the ball... there is a longer line of dudes that people think would be good defenders if they only cared a bit more.
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You are apparently new around here. Those guys get constant frustrated posts because of their over dribbling and playing with blinders.
If Clarkson or Sexton were 6’ 10” and the youngest player in the NBA then I would feel quite differently about them.
I also like (but don’t love) both/either of them (they are really good but the overall fit isn’t great here).
I love some parts and hate others, but way to be bold
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But why does it matter if you are 6-9? Especially if you score buckets at such low efficiency? It’s because you can get your shot of more and should be a positive on defense. Well… GG has shown the defense ain’t really his thing… and his 1:3 assist to turnover ratio leads me to believe his tunnel vision and shot selection may end up far worse than those dudes.
I just think it’s funny we want an inefficient chucker when we have two efficient chuckers right now… dont get bonus point for doing it at 6-9… and all the other stuff they slap on GG is complete guesswork. It’s like me saying Taylor will do the three point shooting thing, the defense thing and all of a sudden start scoring off the dribble and becoming a great passer… cuz now he wants to do it.
It’s just got so little chance of ending up the way some think… it’s okay to guess and gamble but pretty wild to do that while dismissing real thing others have shown.
GG is a guy you can give the ball to in isolation and he's going to get a shot off. That's his skill, really. He'll shoot over wing-sized defenders, and he'll get by bigs who are slower than he is. What happens next could be a mystery. He might brick a jumper. He might commit an offensive foul or turn the ball over. His efficiency is a real question mark. However, it is really difficult to find guys who can always create a look for themselves and therefore be a number-one option.
That's the Jayson Tatum / Paul George / Jimmy Butler scoring wing that wins playoff games. Some nights those guys might shoot 4/15. Other nights they make the difference between winning and losing. With GG, you're buying a lottery ticket on an 18 year-old who has the tools to be that type of player.
If you look at this draft, other than Wembanyama, the Thompsons and hopefully Cam Whitmore, there just aren't many guys with that type of upside. Another one might be Bilal Coulibaly if you think he could develop into the French Penny Hardaway.
That's the Jayson Tatum / Paul George / Jimmy Butler scoring wing that wins playoff games. Some nights those guys might shoot 4/15. Other nights they make the difference between winning and losing. With GG, you're buying a lottery ticket on an 18 year-old who has the tools to be that type of player.
If you look at this draft, other than Wembanyama, the Thompsons and hopefully Cam Whitmore, there just aren't many guys with that type of upside. Another one might be Bilal Coulibaly if you think he could develop into the French Penny Hardaway.
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Not going point by point, but if you can’t see that size is one rather important determinant of ability and value, I don’t know what to tell you. The other point is I’m not drafting him to be inefficient, I’m drafting him because the potential is undeniable and think the upside is worth the risk (at 16, having multiple picks this year, and having a bunch of picks in the future).
You have posited the question of why not sensabaugh if we’re trying to draft a bucket? Because Sensabaugh is less physically gifted and more physically hampered. I don’t think he can play defense, flat out. He has cement shoes and bad knees. He is also lost and has shown 0 aptitude or desire to play defense on top of that. So him even getting on the floor looks like a nearly 0 chance to me, so he doesn’t get to be a bucket. I think you can get GG on the court doing garbage man stuff and he is capable of performing the task, I don’t think Sensabaugh can.
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Size is nice if it helps you do something productive on the basketball court. It may help him get a few more shots off… but if they are bad shots… did you benefit at all from the size?
I just think assuming he will pass and be good at defense is maybe worse than the assumption that Ben Simmons would become a shooter back in the day. Then you add that his bucket getting was wildly inefficient… his catch and shoot numbers are meh… and his ft shooting was bad… he’s just completely theoretical and some dudes are willing to pass on some serious prospects for a pile of assumptions.
If he doesn’t do the stuff he doesn’t play. Simple.
You are overthinking this.
Since this board is inevitably going to have a lot of people mad, confused, sad, angry, horny, violent, etc (basically every emotion), I will do my best to explain each and shed light on why some are higher than others who are more "consensus" higher on other boards. Also this board has nothing to do with the Jazz, it's just who I think are the best players.
- No explanation needed
- Amen has the 2nd highest upside in the class IMO. Him measuring at nearly 220 w/ a 7' wingspan drove it home for me. Ideal wing size with 1% athleticism and vision/feel.
- Scoot is the next best athlete and is a potential legit #1 option who can be a top guard defender.
- Brandon Miller had the best college production and has ideal size for the wing w/ all the necessary intagibles that teams look for. Probably my least confident ranking and could easily see him being #2, but the high athletic upside of the previous 2 make it hard for me to put him over.
- Ausar Thompson. This is kind of me hedging my bet on Amen by putting him below Brandon Miller. Just a slightly less impressive athlete with a less impressive overall game.
- Jarace Walker: The defensive upside and versatility is incredible and I see the offensive flashes that make me giddy for his overall potential. Gets the nod over Whitmore/GG because I trust his defensive versatility more than their offensive games.
- GG Jackson: Ideal body and athleticism without being the freak the guys ahead of him are. Has some of the best footwork while being the youngest. I see him as a blank slate more than others do.
- Cam Whitmore: Barely below GG. Is the more nuclear athlete, but I dont think he is as smooth as GG and doesnt have the plus size. Just below GG by a smidgen
- Kobe Bufkin: I think this is where the drop in the draft is. I could see everyone 2-7 being the 2nd best player in the draft. I can't see Bufkin being the 2nd best player in the draft. I love his overall game though. Does a bit of everything well, solid size, well rounded athlete, young for class, not a lot of weaknesses. Ahead of Cason/Black because I think they both have more flaws while not being overwhelmingly stronger than him in any area.
- Dariq Whitehead I buy the HS film and I buy that his shot was pretty as hell despite him dealing with the foot injuries. Also has the extremely young for class thing going on with him. I'm not a doctor so I dont pretend to have any knowledge about his surgeries. Also measured bigger than my eyes thought, so he got a boost there for me.
- Derrick Lively We all just saw how impactful Walker Kessler was this past year as a dominant college shot blocker. Lively's defense is insane and his vertical ability makes him a viable threat offensively while the other areas of his game that had people hyped fill out. I dont necessarily believe in those things, but the defense and lob threat potential is enough for me to have him here and the fact that some do is some bonus cream on top.
- Cason Wallace A lot of the same stuff from Bufkin applies to Wallace, but I think Wallace is just a bit more flawed with his tendency for passiveness and questionable self-creation. I do like the overall game manager vibes and I do believe in his defense/intangibles. Ahead of Black because I think he makes more sense and is more projectable while Black has more risk. It's close between him and Black and some days I'm more a Black guy and some days more a Cason guy
- Anthony Black Even though his "functional" length is basically the same as Cason's, I do think there is value in head height for seeing over the defense and just generally operating in the paint once you get in there. All that being said, his tendency for passiveness and self-confidence issues in his shot turn me off. Tall PGs also often feel like a pie in the sky hope and the added height just makes it harder for them to take care of the ball and get your offense going efficiently so they become more off-ball secondary creators.
- Gradey Dick Tall with decent length/athleticism and an excellent shooter. Seems to have higher intangibles and secondary skills than some of the other shooters in the class. Was basically the only good Freshman in the Big 12 and I think that means something.
- Leonard Miller I love his floor as a hustle/energy big who can push in transition. Rebounding typically translates. I wish I had more of a feel for his defensive quality. I admittedly don't at this point. Do I believe in the high upside version of him? Not so much. He's ahead of Hendricks at this point because I value what his floor brings along over Hendricks as a floor spacing shooting 4.
- Taylor Hendricks I just don't see the high upside others see. I like the jump shot, but offensively I don't see anything else all that special. His measurements put a further damper on his future prospects of being stronger in the paint at the NBA level. His legs are a bit skinny to me. Don't see a great deal of feel. Think the perimeter defense is overrated. Solid floor player.
- Jaime Jaquez Just a big Jaquez fan. Think he has some sneaky upside as a scorer that he doesnt get credit for because of his age. To me he's kind of like what I want GG Jackson to develop into, he just doesnt have the standout physical abilities GG does. I would also say this is another inflection point for my big board. So 1, 2-8, 9-16. 17 and on.
- Jett Howard A big shooter. Didnt do much else (which is why he is below Dick, just didnt display the intagibles Dick did), but he's a big shooter with NBA pedigree. Had injuries to both ankles that dampened his season. He's above a guy like Hawkins because of the size disparity.
- Bobi Klintman Love the tools and upside at his size and fluidity. Above Sidy because of the size difference and the fact that I think he has more creation upside where I see Sidy more of a connector.
- Brandin Podziemski Love his game and the way he plays. Does a bit of everything on the court and really impacts the game. Wish his shooting was a bit more on the elite side (like if he had a 85%+ from the FT line), but overall I believe his game can translate. Defensively could be an issue as he is too slow to guard most starting PG's and his size isnt great to guard 2's, but he makes up for lack of size with reboudning and smart help D. Above JHS because I like the creativity/shooting more than I like JHS"s increased man D.
First team all-rookie and a starter on a top-3 seed but yeah sure buddy.