Quin was a disaster by the end of his tenure here but us not winning a championship over the last 3 years falls squarely on Lindsey and Zanik. Replace Udoka with Bane or Jalen McDaniels may have gotten us there. Replace Favors with Portis who made way more sense than Favors and one of those other guys and I think we have a banner right now.
2023 NBA Playoffs Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ONE LOVE
- Start date
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Mostly agree.
We also could never rely on Conley to stay healthy. Our backcourt offensively was good. But defensively they were a disaster. And they always seemed injured come playoff time. Without Murray, Denver is a 2nd round team. They might not have even gotten past Minny in the 1st round.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Well, Rudy has to understand:
1, Jokic is a MVP level player and future HoFer. We simply didn't have anyone who could match his talent & level of production.
2, Nuggets did a much better job filling out the roster around Jokic. Struck perfect balance between defense and offense.
3, Mike Malone said it best. All they did was simply develop their own guys instead of forcing themselves into a “win-now mode” by taking a gamble on a “proven”(aging) veteran on a massive contract. Kinda like the Celtics approach. Jokic is still only 27 right now. Gordon 27. Murray 25. MPJ 24. There's literally no reason they can't contend again for the next three to five seasons. All they need to do is to keep the core together, continue to build their chemistry while watching other teams crash and burn with those aging "superstars” like KD(35yr old), Harden(34yr old), Dame(33yr old), Kyrie(32 yr old), etc. We probably would've been able to keep Mitchell and Rudy, had we not gone into a "win-now” by going all in on Conley in 2019.
LogGrad98
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Don't blame him. Mitchell gave up on this team, and ownership refused to just replace Quinn, instead blowing it up. Yeah we came out on top in assets but it remains to be seen whether we can put a team together that has more success than the Gobert/Mitchell teams did. They had their shot and essentially just blew it on bad acquisitions, bad coaching, and bad team play. So I don't blame Gobert for being a tad salty there. He's right.
LogGrad98
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I still see it there. Tweets just aren't shown in JF for me right now, but they are there if I click on them.
View: https://twitter.com/rudygobert27/status/1668459954783780865
TheStormofWar
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's true as well. Utah had a bit of success and got complacent. Denver kept working. There was a reason why Jokic owned Gobert consisently.
Oh, maybe Twitter was just down momentarily. Cool.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Inconceivable! Elon is in charge of it now! He’s a genius creative chaos guy now. /s
stormkoopacv03
Well-Known Member
Do you guys remember how jazz fans were saying we stole Donovan and Rudy via trade from the Nuggets and then win the championship before the Nuggets? Plot twist. lol
Shad
Well-Known Member
Snyder was the #1 reason why we didn't win a championship and really nobody else. He was really awful in the playoffs every year. Who's fault was it we lost to a Kawhi-less Clippers or let the Nuggets come back in the series 3-1 and beat us in 2020 or losing to a Luka-less Mavs? 100% Snyder's fault and nobody else
Sean
Well-Known Member
I remember a couple years ago, right before the 2021 playoffs, where I had the audacity to call Quin a mediocre playoff coach. I got lambasted pretty hard by a few here.
Well he is. Quin is too stubborn of a coach to be successful in a playoff series because a playoff is all about adjustments and match-ups and he's the type of coach that is hell-bent on doing it his way no matter what.
Well he is. Quin is too stubborn of a coach to be successful in a playoff series because a playoff is all about adjustments and match-ups and he's the type of coach that is hell-bent on doing it his way no matter what.
David Stern
Well-Known Member
I think we’ve spent plenty of time discussing this on this forum, but it’s nearly impossible for me to separate Quin’s playoff stubbornness from the roster construction issues from DL. Both dudes were obviously very stubborn and played a major role in the downfall of that core. I pretty much blame them both equally for being unable to adapt
I personally don't think we were ever really all that close to winning a title in the Don/Rudy era. Sure, Lindsey missed on some moves and Snyder could have been more flexible in the playoffs and made more adjustments, and it would've helped if Don and Rudy could have got along better. In the end, I think the biggest problem by far is that we just didn't have the top end talent it takes to win in the playoffs. It's almost impossible to win a championship without having a top 5 player on your roster...you need a Jokic or a Kawhi or a Lebron or a Steph or a Gianis etc. We just didn't have that guy on our team.
I just don't think a team with Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell as it's two best/highest paid players would ever be able to win a championship, no matter who their coach, GM or teammates were.
I just don't think a team with Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell as it's two best/highest paid players would ever be able to win a championship, no matter who their coach, GM or teammates were.
Sean
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree.
Sean
Well-Known Member
Utah was close only because of parity. The NBA doesn't have a super elite, impossible to stop team right now and they didn't in 2021, either. Of course, that just makes Utah's lackluster playoff performances the last three seasons they made it all the more damning.
If the Jazz don't choke a fifteen point lead halfway through the third quarter of a close-out game five against Denver in the Bubble, they go on to maybe beat Los Angeles (both teams) and make it to the NBA Finals.
But too much choking.
I just don't see any way Donovan/Rudy would've beaten Kawhi/PG or Lebron/AD. Top end talent is just too important in the playoffs.
Sean
Well-Known Member
Possible but it doesn't feel implausible.
Like, I look at 1992 or 1994 or 1996, seasons the Jazz were good enough to make the WCF but I don't see any chance, no matter how many do-overs, that Utah goes and beats Chicago in 1992 if they get by Portland. I don't see how they can beat the 1994 Rockets. No matter how many games they play 'em. And if Utah had gotten by Seattle in 1996, there's no way they beat the Bulls.
In 2020, I think there's a path. In 2021, there's absolutely a pathway - even more so than 2020 - because Utah was staring down a game seven before a historic collapse in game six vs the Clippers. Do they beat the Suns and Bucks? I wouldn't bet on it. But again, I didn't see any of those series as impossible opportunities like what faced Utah so many times in the 1990s.
FrenchJazzFa
Well-Known Member
Congrats to Denver, well deserved. They had the luck they need to win. Roster healthy, easy road in the PO, they take advantage of that playing Minny with a team without NAz and MC Daniels, KAT, Rudy at 70%...... play aging Lakers and Miami was toasted. You need a bit of luck to win. We did not play well in PO but have also been quite unlucky at some occasions (injuries). Planet were aligned for Denver. But they remain a very good overall team managed by the best player in current NBA, Joker.
The positive side for me is that a team with only one real star ( and small market) can win NBA title. Good lessons to anyone thinking that getting 2 or 3 stars is the only way to win.
The positive side for me is that a team with only one real star ( and small market) can win NBA title. Good lessons to anyone thinking that getting 2 or 3 stars is the only way to win.