Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
It's pretty clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (democratic socialist) wins NY primary
great argument champ
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
- saying 'the free market is great' as a general phrase is honestly just not intellectually honest at this point-- you really need to qualify the phrase with what it's great for if you want any good faith engagement. I can say the free market is "great" at cementing people in poverty, the free market is "great" at setting the stage for slavery, the free market is "great" at fueling homelessness in the developed world.
- same way dozens of other counties pay for it.
- in my experience, when issues with human life ramifications are left to be decided on by the private sector, ethics are always ignored for the sake of profit-generation. Governments, and their actions, are held accountable by the people-- corporations are held accountable by their shareholders purely on the basis on how profitable their actions are.
- you name a single regime with the dream economic system you've wished for in the prior post, and I'll post a laundry list of examples of humans rights abuses because of a "laissez-faire" system.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
I question whether you actually read what I wrote.
The answer to your first question would be the word that immediately follows “free market” in my introductory statement. Economically. The free market is great, economically. The idea of the best product for the best price, is and always will be a great one. Unfortunately, that idea is not always realized.
- Now, I’m asking for specifics. I understand dozens of countries do it, tell me how America, fiscally, does it. Are we going to be like Germany is going to be in 2020? If I remember correctly, in 2020 they’ll reduce the amount of state money going to funding free tuition, as they’re already declining in quality of education and research because they cannot afford enough teachers...and we’re spending $11K more per student in the public system than they are! Already up to $27k. So, with free college, free healthcare, subsidized housing, and insurance, where is this money sustainably coming from. If you want to talk about intellectual honesty and try to lecture on it, you’ll have to do better than “dozens of countries do it”.
As for you last bit, I already stated that we don’t live in an ideal world, so laissez faire can’t truly work, but we can get close. We have to work in cooperation with the government for proper intervention. But it’s not so great outside of America either. Over in the UK doctors wouldn’t treat, or release a young child despite a parents wishes to do other treatments. Same thing happens in socialist countries. Elderly care is lacking because they’re old, and not productive citizens anymore. Where are the human rights you talk about there? I’ll end with an anecdotal, because I enjoy them. My uncle in law is from Canada, has lived there his whole life. He’s an orthopedic surgeon, very good at what he does. He’s incredibly grateful for how his country helped him pay for his education, but is also insistent that when it comes to the quality of patient care, the USA is higher than Canada.
From personal experience, I can tell you that I have in the last couple of years been able to raise a family of four on a combined family income of less than $50k. I found affordable insurance for myself and my family. Due to my low income, every time I took my two kids to the doctor it resulted in a $3 fee, rather than what probably is a minimum of $100. I drove an old car with a lot of miles. I didn’t eat out much. Didn’t go on vacation or buy frivolous things. Now I’m making a lot more money, and can do some extra things. I also pay more for healthcare, and that’s fair. But I wouldn’t say living like I did with my low income was hard. It was easily doable. Living in America certainly isn’t as bad, or difficult, as you make it seem.
There are other options besides 'anything goes' and 'regardless of product quality'.
Laissez-faire gave us wormy bacon, urine in the milk, etc. The reason we have the FDA, etc. is the result of laissez-faire.
Producing cheaper TVs is setting the stage for slavery?
The real question is 'What type of goods and services prosper best under a free-market system?'. The correct answer is neither 'all of them' nor 'none of them'.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Like I’ve said multiple times already, there needs to be some oversight with it. Unfortunately, people suck, and as a whole, we’re greedy bastards. So yeah, obviously oversight is needed. I just prefer it to be limited.
I just prefer capitalism as a system to socialism. Both will have humans rights issues, as history has shown.
Socialism doesn't exist as a system, apart from a couple of small countries. There is no threat any major country is going to go full communist. So it's kind of an irrelevant discussion.
All capitalist countries are also socialists. "That's socialism!" is not a valid counter to any argument.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
That you prefer minimal government intervention? Ya. I get it.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Is this true?
From what I understand, socialism's ideologies are the exact opposite of capitalism's.
I've also read that capitalism and socialism are not compatible and can't exist at the same time even though people try to prove it all the time.
Even though this thread has a lot of douchey posts in it, I've read a lot about socialism, communism, and capitalism this week. I've learned a lot and the history is pretty interesting to read about.
Do you have anything you'd suggest reading about socialism, Siro?