An Alleged 1953 UFO Crash and Burial Near Garrison, Utah

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Archie Moses, May 22, 2019.

  1. TroutBum

    TroutBum My Member's Premium Contributor

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    I had a client and very good friend down in the Geezy who worked at Area 51. He was one of those genius dudes that graduated from college before high school - you know the type. Anyway, he and I would talk for hours on end about what he used to do for the gov’t, the technology that he worked on — a lot of which still hasn’t been brought to market. (like 100,000+ mile tread tires, which he said they had perfected in the early 60’s, and hybrid engines, which he also said had been around since the 60’s.)

    Anyhow, he was pretty open about that type of stuff, but totally clammed up when I finally asked about “the paranormal stuff” that allegedly went on out there. I feel like he was honoring an oath or promise that he made at some point to not discuss those things, because on that subject, he would never tell me anything. I do remember asking him (after trying to get him to talk about ufo’s and getting shut down) if he believed in intelligent life outside of Earth, and I think he slipped up (maybe on purpose?) when he said something along the lines of, “Where do you think all of the technology from the last 50 years came from?”

    Obviously anecdotal at best, but this guy was one of those dudes that I never questioned, and I believe everything he had to say (and didn’t say).

    Intelligent life visiting Earth? Absolutely. Abductions, mutilations, and all that horse ****? In my opinion, nope.
     
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  2. Scat

    Scat Well-Known Member

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    Stopped watching after she mentioned the grim reaper and green fog killing millions in Europe... just 1 minute in.
     
  3. Gameface

    Gameface All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    I kept going until she basically said aliens are hiding using TARDIS camouflage.
     
  4. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Haven't you seen People of Earth? It's basically a documentary.
     
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  5. TroutBum

    TroutBum My Member's Premium Contributor

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    That’s pretty funny right there. It’s too bad that the subject is mired in silliness and mediocrity because of that kind of “expert.” Why can’t we just find a super-smart person who is passionate about this particular field, who doesn’t have a freaky-dumbass “I just woke up; aliens” afro, and isn’t into every conspiracy theory out there? Some honest to goodness thought, research, and evidence presented in the proper scientific way would be splendid.
     
  6. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    I'd tell you, but you wouldn't like the answer.
     
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  7. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Linda Moulton Howe is one of the best and respected alternative journalists out there.
     
  8. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    You stopped watching because she mentioned an historical account of what people mentioned from the 1300s so she could transition that reference point of what people said into the book the God's of Eden and Cow Mutilations? At no point does she say the grim reaper existed, she says these are the first accounts of the grim reaper and how they came to be.

    Tell me, do you stop reading about the Salem Witch Trials when you read about witches too? Lol
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  9. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever heard of USOs by chance?

    There have been a number of UFO and USOs crashing or submerging in the ocean or lakes. Just because you've only heard about land crashes, doesn't mean water crashes haven't been reported.
     
  10. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    Animal mutilations is one of those things that completely weird me out. In your opinion, what do you think is the source of the tens of thousands of reportered cattle/animal mutilations? Satanic groups? If you read about them, it's hard to wrap your mind around it.

    https://nypost.com/2016/09/05/the-s...000-animal-mutilations-in-americas-heartland/
     
  11. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I get skeptical because apparently they have the technology and ability for inter-stellar travel, but for some reason they can't fly and keep crashing. You'd think they would improve and make some adjustments after the first few times.

    Also what is to gain by continually observing us? Is it tourism? Scientifically, compared to a species that is far enough advanced for effective inter-stellar travel, we would be pretty boring really. I could see it if it was like us studying like monkeys on our own planet, but would we put the resources together to go study monkeys several star systems away over hundreds or thousands of years? Seems unlikely.
     
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  12. Scat

    Scat Well-Known Member

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    This.

    They have to spend their government grant money or lose it.
     
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  13. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I've had an interest in the subject of UFOs since my childhood in the 50's. Met my future wife in the UFO section of a local bookstore. I really enjoy thinking outside the box. No surprise my favorite author on the subject was French scientist Jacques Vallee.

    Anyway, several interesting developments since late 2017. First, the Pentagon admitted, that despite saying military interest in UFOs ended with Project Blue Book in the late 60's, that in fact a more recent program kept tabs on military pilot observations of unknowns:
    The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program(AATIP). They claimed it ended in 2012, but Luis Elizondo, who directed it, claims it is ongoing:

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/16/pentagon-ufo-search-harry-reid-216111

    Then, in April, 2019, frustrated Navy pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing sightings, to convey to pilots that their careers would not be threatened if they reported such encounters with unknowns:

    https://www.philly.com/news/nation-...s-ufos-navy-document-encounters-20190424.html

    "Since 2014, these intrusions have been happening on a regular basis,” Joseph Gradisher, spokesman for the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, told the Washington Post on Wednesday. Recently, unidentified aircraft entered military-designated airspace as often as multiple times per month. “We want to get to the bottom of this. We need to determine who’s doing it, where it’s coming from, and what their intent is. We need to try to find ways to prevent it from happening again.”

    Finally, in May, 2019, the Pentagon admitted that they do still collect and study reports, that the program did not end in 2012:

    https://nypost.com/2019/05/22/the-pentagon-finally-admits-it-investigates-ufos/
     
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  14. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    In late 2017/early 2018, 3 videos were released describing Navy pilot encounters with unknowns. The best known incident, which was familiar to UFO researchers before the existence of the Pentagon study was revealed, involved the carrier USS Nimitz, and occurred in 2004. Here strike fighter commander David Fravor describes his experience:



    Here are all 3 videos that were released. The first one was recorded by a Navy fighter pilot who was scrambled from the Nimitz after Fravor returned to the carrier:

    https://www.history.com/playlists/ufo-fighter-pilots-video-playlist

    George Knapp of KLAS, Las Vegas, obtained a Pentagon report on the 2004 Nimitz incident:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tling-new-details-supersonic-Tic-Tac-UFO.html

    https://www.history.com/news/uss-nimitz-2004-tic-tac-ufo-encounter

    The Pentagon report on the Nimitz incident, as obtained by KLAS, Las Vegas:

    https://media.lasvegasnow.com/nxsglobal/lasvegasnow/document_dev/2018/05/18/TIC TAC UFO EXECUTIVE REPORT_1526682843046_42960218_ver1.0.pdf

    And here is an interview with Chris Mellon, former deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence, and former staffer on the Senate Intelligence Committee:



    The History Network begins a series on all this on 5/31/19. I am admittedly skeptical of the History Network, they of "Ancient Aliens". I personally have no reason to ascribe the engineering feats of ancient civilizations to alien intervention.

    That said, after a lifetime of interest in this subject, I am elated at the new disclosures and willingness to respect the eyewitness testimony of highly trained pilots. I never thought I would see the day, to be honest.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  15. Archie Moses

    Archie Moses Well-Known Member

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    There are much more reports and sightings of UFOs where they don't crash. A lot of the crashes that are known are from the 40s and 50s.

    At the end if the day, they could be eons technologically advanced than what we are. That said, our environment could be completely different than what their crafts are designed for. I suspect, no matter how far technology advances, there's always going to be malfunctions, pilot errors, and environmental conditions that will play a factor.
     
  16. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    It's very easy to mock UFO reports. Indeed, it's been the default response by the media, physical scientists, and much of the general public for many decades. But once you go down the rabbit hole with curiosity, and the attitude "I don't know everything about the universe I live in", it's OK to say, "yes, I know these things must be impossible from the view of physics and the nature of space travel that we believe must be the case, but I won't fear being mocked". My wife had one of the most incredible close encounters I have ever heard. I will not repeat it here, it would betray her trust. It happened when she was about 12 years old, and she remembers it like it was yesterday. I cannot explain her experience, nor use it as proof of anything, indeed there are components that make me wonder "was this entirely a physical event?". But I do believe it happened. I do not mock her experience. And I do not mock the observations of trained pilots.

    I have no idea what is going on, and I am certain many could be identified. But I don't pretend to know everything about the universe, or the reality, in which I live. The whole subject has afforded a wonderful opportunity to think outside the box, the very reason Jacques Vallee became my favorite researcher on the subject.

    Here is an interesting recent book on the subject. The study of UFOs is not just about "are these actual nuts and bolts phenomena?". There are interesting components involving sociology and the development of belief systems in the modern era:

     
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  17. colton

    colton All Around Nice Guy Staff Member

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    Now this is just plain stupid. Technological progress does not happen/has not happened in a vacuum. The technology from the last 50 years came from basic scientific research and other technological development. Speaking as someone who has been directly in the scientific research area for the past 23 years, I know of absolutely no technological developments for which one cannot easily point to a series of incremental steps that directly led to those developments. That's not at all what technological progress would look like if we were getting it from aliens.
     
  18. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    Unless "they" didn't want us to know we were getting the technology from aliens and so "they" only released the technology incrementally

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
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  19. Gameface

    Gameface All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    I'm just going to interject myself in this by saying I was on The USS Nimitz when those pilots reported seeing a "twinkie" like craft (I think they are referring to it as a tic-tac now). It created a stir aboard the ship and was talked about for the better part of an afternoon.

    Let me also report, never were any of us told to stop talking about it. Never were we told the information was confidential. Never was there any effort to "contain" this story. And the story is out there and is apparently one of the more credible UFO encounters of the last few decades. There has been NO attempt to hide this story.

    That's all I have, carry on.
     
  20. sirkickyass

    sirkickyass Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    So last year I went to Ukraine and hung out with my Russian tutor in Odessa. She's very smart but kind of reserved about her opinions on things. Around the third day she started kind of hinting that she had some "out there" beliefs about what was really going on in the world. She would occassionally ask me if I believed in "a world beyond her own." I kind of thought she was talking about ghosts or other paranormal stuff. I like her and humored her, but had no real interest in the topic. Around the time I was getting ready to leave she very sincerely asked me to read a book about her beliefs called "The Universe and We. (translated)" I had a 12 hour plane flight ahead of me, so I said sure.

    Get on the plane, open up the pdf file and "world beyond our own" was very literal. It was all about aliens.

    Lots of portions of the book were verifiably false. For example, it claimed that all the astronauts that had visited the moon came back changed and more religious. We can tell this isn't true because, for example, Neil Armstrong was very famously an atheist. There were other similar claims about the various space programs and what they had discovered.

    What I actually got from the experience of reading the book was something different: there was a cultural bent to these particular UFO stories that would strike us as somewhat ludicrous but she took totally seriously. There were descriptions in this book of the governing system of the alien race that was watching over us and waiting for mankind to develop to the point that we could take our place among the rest of the galaxy. That governing system sounded suspiciously like the structure of the Supreme Soviet in the 1970s. Of course, the person who wrote the book would have known about that structure. To her, it is a natural way that society would be ordered.

    Similarly, the aliens were supposedly interested primarily in an area in and around Luhansk, Ukraine. There's nothing there. There's no obvious thing that's special about it. But, that's really no different than Roswell, New Mexico. To someone from that area, it seems only natural that the aliens would be interested in them. It never seems ludicrous that the things you are familiar with would have some outsize importance or meaning.

    Ultimately these beliefs are pretty harmless. The guide to life was pretty standard "treat people well stuff." There's no point in trying to disabuse her of her beliefs. But it make me realize that the belief in these kinds of alien life forms comes from a certain kind of egoism. We desperately WANT to believe that our lives are important enough that something or someone out there would take an interest in them - monitor them from afar - maybe even occasionally intervene for our benefit or to punish the wicked. It's the same forces that make us believe in an active God or even Santa Claus.

    So you guys do you. And if you're interested in a pretty attractive Ukrainian who thinks she has psychic abilities and can commune directly with aliens: she's single!
     
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