At least the guns are okay

[The Thriller]

Okay cool...

The pro-gun crowd is in control. You think that because the majority of Americans are enthusiastically for meaningless and vaguely defined reforms means you don't need the gun crowd's support. Good ****ing luck with that.

Um. The majority in the pro gun crowd supported this bipartisan Manchin-Toomey bill (not vaguely defined reforms).

Broad Support for Renewed Background Checks Bill, Skepticism about Its Chances

Overview Following the Senate’s rejection of gun legislation last month, the public continues to overwhelmingly favor making private gun sales and sales

www.pewresearch.org

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Aftermath, Legislation, Response

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Aftermath, Legislation, Response: In the days following the shootings, medical examinations of the victims revealed that each had been shot multiple times. While police attempted to uncover a motive for the attack, the scale of the massacre, compounded by...

www.britannica.com

I am being harsh because I want change and that change can only happen with pro-gun support from top to bottom. If you think you can just popular opinion your way past the 2A and our current supreme court then all I can say is that the etiquette is puff, puff, pass.

I don’t think this is supported by evidence. The primary problem isn’t a gun owner v gun regulation people. The problem lies in the incentives to obstruct even bipartisan and popular legislation in the Senate.
It’s why we struggle to address all major problems in this country, from health care to climate change to gun regulation. It’s why nearly all of Biden’s legislative accomplishments were spending bills and passed via reconciliation. Bills, such as gun reform or voting rights couldn’t be done with reconciliation so the filibuster would’ve killed them.

As long as the senate filibuster persists to obstruct legislation, it’ll be impossible for a majority to govern this country and address problems. Especially a problem so ingrained in our culture, collides with constitutional rights, and touches nerves with federalism.

 

[gandalfe]

Um. The majority in the pro gun crowd supported this bipartisan Manchin-Toomey bill (not vaguely defined reforms).

Broad Support for Renewed Background Checks Bill, Skepticism about Its Chances

Overview Following the Senate’s rejection of gun legislation last month, the public continues to overwhelmingly favor making private gun sales and sales

www.pewresearch.org

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Aftermath, Legislation, Response

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting - Aftermath, Legislation, Response: In the days following the shootings, medical examinations of the victims revealed that each had been shot multiple times. While police attempted to uncover a motive for the attack, the scale of the massacre, compounded by...

www.britannica.com

I don’t think this is supported by evidence. The primary problem isn’t a gun owner v gun regulation people. The problem lies in the incentives to obstruct even bipartisan and popular legislation in the Senate.
It’s why we struggle to address all major problems in this country, from health care to climate change to gun regulation. It’s why nearly all of Biden’s legislative accomplishments were spending bills and passed via reconciliation. Bills, such as gun reform or voting rights couldn’t be done with reconciliation so the filibuster would’ve killed them.

As long as the senate filibuster persists to obstruct legislation, it’ll be impossible for a majority to govern this country and address problems. Especially a problem so ingrained in our culture, collides with constitutional rights, and touches nerves with federalism.

The problem, not to put too fine a point on it, lies solely in the gun (NRA & manufacturer, with a considerable amount of overlap) lobbyists. Tey're giving out millions of dollars, steak dinners, and ****jobs to get politicians to vote against it.

 

[LogGrad98]

The problem, not to put too fine a point on it, lies solely in the gun (NRA & manufacturer, with a considerable amount of overlap) lobbyists. Tey're giving out millions of dollars, steak dinners, and ****jobs to get politicians to vote against it.

The lobby in general needs to be killed. Like dead dead.

 

[The Thriller]

Side note, no other group enjoys the privilege that the pro gun crowd receives and I’m tired of it. No one else says, “oof, you don’t know the difference between a 504 and IEP? Wow, maybe you shouldn’t comment about education.” Over the last few years, I’ve heard the dumbest things said about education, history and government, K-12 education, and higher education. Yet, no one can tell critics of education anything. The same applies to the stupidity we hear daily about vaccines. Yet, the gun crowd must always be respected, pandered to, and worshipped, no matter how ridiculous they sound (arm teachers, metal detectors at every school door, former vets of wars, barrggg) or else they’ll continue to vote against the interests of society.

I’m all for emphasizing experts and expertise. I absolutely believe that we need to hear more from people who actually know what they’re talking about and hear less from the idiots. But let’s be consistent then.

Unfortunately, I find the rhetoric of the pro gun crowd (not specifically you Game but in general) nitpicking irrelevant and minute details about their penis extenders, used to shut down (gun down) ANY discussion of ANY sensible gun reform that is much needed rather than to be informative and to push the discussion forward. It’s just another form of choking out the clock until the next mass shooting because they don’t want anything to change or interfere with their guns or their pro gun identity. I’m tired of it. Gun nuts and their lobby, vaccine deniers, soulless billionaires, and pro MAGA racist morons aren’t the only ones who matter in this country. The majority of us are sick and tired of these senseless shootings and the bullying of the gun lobby on the legislative branch to obstruct ANY attempt to address this problem.

 

[Rubashov]

So what disqualifies you from owning a firearm in the US?

 

[LogGrad98]

So what disqualifies you from owning a firearm in the US?

Pretty much stuff like a felony record and that's close to about it.

 

[Red]

Many of them suffer from mental health issues, I guarantee depression is part and parcel, and I think they see others get recognition and validation as doing something big, and they want that same feeling, to feel like they did something and made people take notice of them. And for the world to see how they righted their perceived wrongs in their lives. I am not saying this is 100% the entirety of what is really a highly-complex issue with many facets, but it is one facet at least, nonetheless.

Sometimes, I try to reduce it to a really simplistic equation:

Serious anger management issues + guns. This must play a role in the “spontaneous” events, like when someone returns in rage with a gun to their workplace or former workplace. I know this is as simplistic as can be, but seems like all these shooters deal with anger by shooting people, be it spontaneous, or planned in advance. Maybe this is such a given, it should go unmentioned. But seething, un-dealt with anger IS a mental health problem, and it can’t just sit there beneath the surface, ignored. People snap, and when it’s anger, it usually arises because individuals are focused on themselves, and their needs, and perceived slights, and they have simply never dealt with any of these mental health issues, involving their anger at society. The world does not revolve around them, but their anger is far stronger than self awareness.

 

[Rubashov]

Pretty much stuff like a felony record and that's close to about it.

i bet you can contest that tho yeah? If you can afford a lawyer? And im guessing there is a list of bad felonies you cant own a gun for and other felonies they care less about, like say domestic violence?

I also add, I think there is at the moment 3 guns for every one American registered in the US, with so many guns everywhere how is any sort of control realistically possible?

 

[Rubashov]

But seething, un-dealt with anger IS a mental health problem, and it can’t just sit there beneath the surface, ignored. People snap, and when it’s anger, it usually arises because individuals are focused on themselves, and their needs, and perceived slights, and they have simply never dealt with any of these mental health issues, involving their anger at society. The world does not revolve around them, but their anger is far stronger than self awareness.

Its not a mental health issue, anger and rage are quite normal human feelings. Anger at society and the organised political corporate elite is also very understandable. They may subside over time they may not. The problem the US has is that is that before people have time to cool off they have ready access to an arsenal of lethal weapons that require very little skill or training to operate effectively. What also confuses me is why more of your politicians don't get shot? Someone with a long arm, a scope and some talent could make America great again, and spare the courts a lot of time and money.

 

[Red]

Its not a mental health issue, anger and rage are quite normal human feelings. Anger at society and the organised political corporate elite is also very understandable. They may subside over time they may not. The problem the US has is that is that before people have time to cool off they have ready access to an arsenal of lethal weapons that require very little skill or training to operate effectively. What also confuses me is why more of your politicians don't get shot? Someone with a long arm, a scope and some talent could make America great again, and spare the courts a lot of time and money.

If you don’t understand that anger can be a mental health issue, then I don’t know what to tell you. A bezerk madman, blowing people away in rage is not displaying a “quite normal human feeling”. Lots of people have serious anger management issues. Like guys who, in the heat of an argument with their spouse, wallop them. That is a serious mental health issue. Anger has its place, and yes, it’s an emotion we all have felt, and will feel again. That does not mean it cannot become a very serious issue if left untreated. Really, isn’t it the “defects” of human nature that are the issue where anger crimes and hate crimes are concerned? We are a flawed species in many respects. Emotional maturity is missing in many of we humans. Scientists used to say, by way of defining the human species, “man is the rational animal”. Well, these breakdowns in American society put the lie to that interpretation. We are in dire need of recognizing the deficits of human nature. I think we need a lot more self awareness, and it’s that lack of that self awareness and inability to deal with these darker angels, like anger off the charts, that is at least part of the problem, IMO. And, since that ain’t easy, and may never happen, easy access to things like assault rifles is part of the problem. Severe anger management issues + guns.

 

[fishonjazz]

I also add, I think there is at the moment 3 guns for every one American registered in the US, with so many guns everywhere how is any sort of control realistically possible?

This is the problem. Its too late to do much. Too many guns in too many homes already. We are ****ed in regard to this issue.
Hell, I complain about guns and I own 2 of them. Never shoot or even touch them but I have them.

 

[Rubashov]

This is the problem. Its too late to do much. Too many guns in too many homes already. We are ****ed in regard to this issue.
Hell, I complain about guns and I own 2 of them. Never shoot or even touch them but I have them.

I was going to make a crude dick joke but well you know i have some class....

 

[LogGrad98]

i bet you can contest that tho yeah? If you can afford a lawyer? And im guessing there is a list of bad felonies you cant own a gun for and other felonies they care less about, like say domestic violence?

I also add, I think there is at the moment 3 guns for every one American registered in the US, with so many guns everywhere how is any sort of control realistically possible?

Beyond contesting it you can just go buy a gun advertised by someone in craigs list or something. No muss, no fuss, no checks. My brother is a felon and he owns like 3 guns he got from friends and relatives. He is very passive, being catfished heavily atm, so I have zero qualms about it, but I know he has them. I would guess that many if not most or even close to all felons in the US that have that propensity do actually possess firearms.

Interesting thing about these mass shootings is that seldom is it someone with more than a minor brush with the law. Most of the people carrying these out are first-time or minor offenders. It isn't the hardened criminal with 2 convictions on their record. It is the marginalized (as they perceive it) loner with a grudge who has fallen deep enough into their own little world to see that as the best option and most viable way to right the perceived wrongs. More than a few have been incels, for example, by practice if nothing else, but some even active parts of the incel communities. This should tell us a lot about the psychology of what drives a mass shooter in general. Someone who feels they have been dealt a bad hand and sees no way out then wants to inflict their pain on others, maybe those they perceive unfairly get a good hand, or have been the ones marginalizing them, like "Chads" or women in general in the case of incels, for example, can easily turn to violence to get their due and right their wrongs, as they see it. It is a vicious and frightening thing because there is no way to anticipate it, no way to stop it, no way to address it beforehand. You just really have no idea who is heading that way. Sure they always point to online presence and comments and such ex post facto, but when you get into that data you find it is still 1 in a thousand who are making the exact same kinds of comments until the one who shoots subtly changes their tone right before the attack. So how do you suss out the one in a thousand who are spouting off the exact same way online? Do we just take them all down? How do you get help to someone with zero support group and other unstable people in their lives who don't even know enough to realize they need help, or who might not want it?

A good example of some of this is Jake Davidson, an incel in england who went out with a shotgun shooting randomly in his neighborhood and killed 5 people in the span of 6 minutes including his own mother, and a 3 year old girl and her father. No rhyme or reason. He was going to show the world how he felt being marginalized in his perception. It says here they were going to pass new legislation, but how do you legislate for something like this? So you stop the hate speech on one platform or another, and they find a new one or go to the dark web or whatever. It is like trying to hold all the sand in your bare hands as more and more is poured in, you just can't do it.

Where the hell do we go from here?

Plymouth shooting: Relatives call for 'more action on incel culture'

They urge the government to take action on "incel" culture in new online safety laws.

www.bbc.com

Davison, 22, shot his mother Maxine, 51; three-year-old Sophie Martyn; her father, Lee, 43; Stephen Washington, 59; and Kate Shepherd, 66 in a six-minute spree in the Keyham area of the city on 12 August.
The killer, who died after turning the gun on himself, had spoken online of being "beaten down" and "defeated by life".
Full inquests into the deaths are due to begin in January 2023.
A government spokesperson said: "We are committed to tackling harmful content online.

"That is why we are introducing the Online Safety Bill, a pioneering and much-needed law to make the internet a safer place by requiring internet companies to protect children, tackle illegal activity and uphold their stated terms and conditions.
"All companies in scope of the legislation will need to remove and limit the spread of illegal content on their platforms, including illegal terrorist content."

 

[LogGrad98]

I was going to make a crude dick joke but well you know i have some class....

Who are you and what have you done with Rubashov? Have you sexually assaulted him yet, because we can wait to call the authorities.

 

[Rubashov]

If you don’t understand that anger can be a mental health issue, then I don’t know what to tell you. A bezerk madman, blowing people away in rage is not displaying a “quite normal human feeling”. Lots of people have serious anger management issues. Like guys who, in the heat of an argument with their spouse, wallop them.

That's not a mental health problem, that's a criminal matter and the person belongs in prison. Call it what you want, a personality disorder, consumer is unable to self regulate, its a lot of nonsense, its people who should know better, inventing a medical diagnosis for people who are simply *****.

That is a serious mental health issue. Anger has its place, and yes, it’s an emotion we all have felt, and will feel again. That does not mean it cannot become a very serious issue if left untreated. Really, isn’t it the “defects” of human nature that are the issue where anger crimes and hate crimes are concerned? We are a flawed species in many respects. Emotional maturity is missing in many of we humans. Scientists used to say, by way of defining the human species, “man is the rational animal”. Well, these breakdowns in American society put the lie to that interpretation. We are in dire need of recognizing the deficits of human nature. I think we need a lot more self awareness, and it’s that lack of that self awareness and inability to deal with these darker angels, like anger off the charts, that is at least part of the problem, IMO. And, since that ain’t easy, and may never happen, easy access to things like assault rifles is part of the problem. Severe anger management issues + guns.

No its behaviour, behaviour is not a mental health issue, people have choice they have agency, the fact they continue to make bad choices is not a medical problem, its a socialisation problem. I've spent most of my working life working with people with acute mental health issues and others in some form of crisis. Its not human defects, its a bunch of things, mostly brain chemistry, followed by drugs, alcohol, social circumstance, upbringing and increasingly exposure to mental health professionals filling their heads full of ****.

 

[Rubashov]

Beyond contesting it you can just go buy a gun advertised by someone in craigs list or something. No muss, no fuss, no checks. My brother is a felon and he owns like 3 guns he got from friends and relatives. He is very passive, being catfished heavily atm, so I have zero qualms about it, but I know he has them. I would guess that many if not most or even close to all felons in the US that have that propensity do actually possess firearms.

Interesting thing about these mass shootings is that seldom is it someone with more than a minor brush with the law. Most of the people carrying these out are first-time or minor offenders. It isn't the hardened criminal with 2 convictions on their record. It is the marginalized (as they perceive it) loner with a grudge who has fallen deep enough into their own little world to see that as the best option and most viable way to right the perceived wrongs. More than a few have been incels, for example, by practice if nothing else, but some even active parts of the incel communities. This should tell us a lot about the psychology of what drives a mass shooter in general. Someone who feels they have been dealt a bad hand and sees no way out then wants to inflict their pain on others, maybe those they perceive unfairly get a good hand, or have been the ones marginalizing them, like "Chads" or women in general in the case of incels, for example, can easily turn to violence to get their due and right their wrongs, as they see it. It is a vicious and frightening thing because there is no way to anticipate it, no way to stop it, no way to address it beforehand. You just really have no idea who is heading that way. Sure they always point to online presence and comments and such ex post facto, but when you get into that data you find it is still 1 in a thousand who are making the exact same kinds of comments until the one who shoots subtly changes their tone right before the attack. So how do you suss out the one in a thousand who are spouting off the exact same way online? Do we just take them all down? How do you get help to someone with zero support group and other unstable people in their lives who don't even know enough to realize they need help, or who might not want it?

A good example of some of this is Jake Davidson, an incel in england who went out with a shotgun shooting randomly in his neighborhood and killed 5 people in the span of 6 minutes including his own mother, and a 3 year old girl and her father. No rhyme or reason. He was going to show the world how he felt being marginalized in his perception. It says here they were going to pass new legislation, but how do you legislate for something like this? So you stop the hate speech on one platform or another, and they find a new one or go to the dark web or whatever. It is like trying to hold all the sand in your bare hands as more and more is poured in, you just can't do it.

Where the hell do we go from here?

Plymouth shooting: Relatives call for 'more action on incel culture'

They urge the government to take action on "incel" culture in new online safety laws.

www.bbc.com

What's an incel?

 

[The Thriller]

I was going to make a crude dick joke but well you know i have some class....

One of the problems we have with guns is that most of the mass shooters are young (white) males who don’t have felony records. They might have misdemeanors and school discipline records longer than the Golden Gate Bridge. They may have even been accused of committing a felony. But unless they’ve been CONVICTED of a felony, their ability to legally purchase a gun from any store remains unrestricted. This doesn’t take into account private sales, where regulation practically doesn’t exist. This is made so easy on the Internet.

The other problem is the lack of training and accountability. Most states just 10 years ago required that you obtain a concealed carry permit if you wanted to pack heat in public places. This required you pay for a permit and undergo training. But the Republican Supreme Court has virtually gutted these laws. Now any yokel can buy an armory of weapons and pack heat in public places without any training.

How wouldn’t this end in disaster?

 

[Rubashov]

Who are you and what have you done with Rubashov? Have you sexually assaulted him yet, because we can wait to call the authorities.

Rubashov hasn't been sexually assaulted by anything in quite some time. Why am I talking about myself in the third person? Aberrant behaviour like this could explain the lack sex...

 

[LogGrad98]

What's an incel?

Really? I thought you would have seen this one, not being facetious.

Incel means "involuntary celibate". It is a group of men that cannot get women who band together to hate women and the men they are with. A man who can get women they label a "Chad", and have a cartoonish vision of what this person is, which is always nothing like the incels themselves. They have several online groups and meeting places. They egg each other on in their perceived unfair slights from women. They view it as they are the victims and therefore women are choosing to leave them out on purpose, so it can escalate quickly. That Jake Davidson was active in several online groups for incels and in at least one of them on the day before and the day of his attacks they were encouraging him in his ravings about going to shoot people up.

 

[LogGrad98]

Rubashov hasn't been sexually assaulted by anything in quite some time. Why am I talking about myself in the third person? Aberrant behaviour like this could explain the lack sex...

Just don't become an incel. Do the right thing and find a nice prostitute and help her pay her rent. And yeah, maybe have sex with her too.