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At least the guns are okay




Red

Well-Known Member
Many of them suffer from mental health issues, I guarantee depression is part and parcel, and I think they see others get recognition and validation as doing something big, and they want that same feeling, to feel like they did something and made people take notice of them. And for the world to see how they righted their perceived wrongs in their lives. I am not saying this is 100% the entirety of what is really a highly-complex issue with many facets, but it is one facet at least, nonetheless.
Sometimes, I try to reduce it to a really simplistic equation:

Serious anger management issues + guns. This must play a role in the “spontaneous” events, like when someone returns in rage with a gun to their workplace or former workplace. I know this is as simplistic as can be, but seems like all these shooters deal with anger by shooting people, be it spontaneous, or planned in advance. Maybe this is such a given, it should go unmentioned. But seething, un-dealt with anger IS a mental health problem, and it can’t just sit there beneath the surface, ignored. People snap, and when it’s anger, it usually arises because individuals are focused on themselves, and their needs, and perceived slights, and they have simply never dealt with any of these mental health issues, involving their anger at society. The world does not revolve around them, but their anger is far stronger than self awareness.
 

Rubashov

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Pretty much stuff like a felony record and that's close to about it.


i bet you can contest that tho yeah? If you can afford a lawyer? And im guessing there is a list of bad felonies you cant own a gun for and other felonies they care less about, like say domestic violence?

I also add, I think there is at the moment 3 guns for every one American registered in the US, with so many guns everywhere how is any sort of control realistically possible?
 

Rubashov

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
But seething, un-dealt with anger IS a mental health problem, and it can’t just sit there beneath the surface, ignored. People snap, and when it’s anger, it usually arises because individuals are focused on themselves, and their needs, and perceived slights, and they have simply never dealt with any of these mental health issues, involving their anger at society. The world does not revolve around them, but their anger is far stronger than self awareness.

Its not a mental health issue, anger and rage are quite normal human feelings. Anger at society and the organised political corporate elite is also very understandable. They may subside over time they may not. The problem the US has is that is that before people have time to cool off they have ready access to an arsenal of lethal weapons that require very little skill or training to operate effectively. What also confuses me is why more of your politicians don't get shot? Someone with a long arm, a scope and some talent could make America great again, and spare the courts a lot of time and money.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
Its not a mental health issue, anger and rage are quite normal human feelings. Anger at society and the organised political corporate elite is also very understandable. They may subside over time they may not. The problem the US has is that is that before people have time to cool off they have ready access to an arsenal of lethal weapons that require very little skill or training to operate effectively. What also confuses me is why more of your politicians don't get shot? Someone with a long arm, a scope and some talent could make America great again, and spare the courts a lot of time and money.
If you don’t understand that anger can be a mental health issue, then I don’t know what to tell you. A bezerk madman, blowing people away in rage is not displaying a “quite normal human feeling”. Lots of people have serious anger management issues. Like guys who, in the heat of an argument with their spouse, wallop them. That is a serious mental health issue. Anger has its place, and yes, it’s an emotion we all have felt, and will feel again. That does not mean it cannot become a very serious issue if left untreated. Really, isn’t it the “defects” of human nature that are the issue where anger crimes and hate crimes are concerned? We are a flawed species in many respects. Emotional maturity is missing in many of we humans. Scientists used to say, by way of defining the human species, “man is the rational animal”. Well, these breakdowns in American society put the lie to that interpretation. We are in dire need of recognizing the deficits of human nature. I think we need a lot more self awareness, and it’s that lack of that self awareness and inability to deal with these darker angels, like anger off the charts, that is at least part of the problem, IMO. And, since that ain’t easy, and may never happen, easy access to things like assault rifles is part of the problem. Severe anger management issues + guns.
 

fishonjazz

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Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
I also add, I think there is at the moment 3 guns for every one American registered in the US, with so many guns everywhere how is any sort of control realistically possible?
This is the problem. Its too late to do much. Too many guns in too many homes already. We are ****ed in regard to this issue.
Hell, I complain about guns and I own 2 of them. Never shoot or even touch them but I have them.
 

LogGrad98

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2020-21 Award Winner
i bet you can contest that tho yeah? If you can afford a lawyer? And im guessing there is a list of bad felonies you cant own a gun for and other felonies they care less about, like say domestic violence?

I also add, I think there is at the moment 3 guns for every one American registered in the US, with so many guns everywhere how is any sort of control realistically possible?
Beyond contesting it you can just go buy a gun advertised by someone in craigs list or something. No muss, no fuss, no checks. My brother is a felon and he owns like 3 guns he got from friends and relatives. He is very passive, being catfished heavily atm, so I have zero qualms about it, but I know he has them. I would guess that many if not most or even close to all felons in the US that have that propensity do actually possess firearms.

Interesting thing about these mass shootings is that seldom is it someone with more than a minor brush with the law. Most of the people carrying these out are first-time or minor offenders. It isn't the hardened criminal with 2 convictions on their record. It is the marginalized (as they perceive it) loner with a grudge who has fallen deep enough into their own little world to see that as the best option and most viable way to right the perceived wrongs. More than a few have been incels, for example, by practice if nothing else, but some even active parts of the incel communities. This should tell us a lot about the psychology of what drives a mass shooter in general. Someone who feels they have been dealt a bad hand and sees no way out then wants to inflict their pain on others, maybe those they perceive unfairly get a good hand, or have been the ones marginalizing them, like "Chads" or women in general in the case of incels, for example, can easily turn to violence to get their due and right their wrongs, as they see it. It is a vicious and frightening thing because there is no way to anticipate it, no way to stop it, no way to address it beforehand. You just really have no idea who is heading that way. Sure they always point to online presence and comments and such ex post facto, but when you get into that data you find it is still 1 in a thousand who are making the exact same kinds of comments until the one who shoots subtly changes their tone right before the attack. So how do you suss out the one in a thousand who are spouting off the exact same way online? Do we just take them all down? How do you get help to someone with zero support group and other unstable people in their lives who don't even know enough to realize they need help, or who might not want it?

A good example of some of this is Jake Davidson, an incel in england who went out with a shotgun shooting randomly in his neighborhood and killed 5 people in the span of 6 minutes including his own mother, and a 3 year old girl and her father. No rhyme or reason. He was going to show the world how he felt being marginalized in his perception. It says here they were going to pass new legislation, but how do you legislate for something like this? So you stop the hate speech on one platform or another, and they find a new one or go to the dark web or whatever. It is like trying to hold all the sand in your bare hands as more and more is poured in, you just can't do it.

Where the hell do we go from here?


Davison, 22, shot his mother Maxine, 51; three-year-old Sophie Martyn; her father, Lee, 43; Stephen Washington, 59; and Kate Shepherd, 66 in a six-minute spree in the Keyham area of the city on 12 August.
The killer, who died after turning the gun on himself, had spoken online of being "beaten down" and "defeated by life".
Full inquests into the deaths are due to begin in January 2023.
A government spokesperson said: "We are committed to tackling harmful content online.

"That is why we are introducing the Online Safety Bill, a pioneering and much-needed law to make the internet a safer place by requiring internet companies to protect children, tackle illegal activity and uphold their stated terms and conditions.
"All companies in scope of the legislation will need to remove and limit the spread of illegal content on their platforms, including illegal terrorist content."
 

Rubashov

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
If you don’t understand that anger can be a mental health issue, then I don’t know what to tell you. A bezerk madman, blowing people away in rage is not displaying a “quite normal human feeling”. Lots of people have serious anger management issues. Like guys who, in the heat of an argument with their spouse, wallop them.

That's not a mental health problem, that's a criminal matter and the person belongs in prison. Call it what you want, a personality disorder, consumer is unable to self regulate, its a lot of nonsense, its people who should know better, inventing a medical diagnosis for people who are simply *****.

That is a serious mental health issue. Anger has its place, and yes, it’s an emotion we all have felt, and will feel again. That does not mean it cannot become a very serious issue if left untreated. Really, isn’t it the “defects” of human nature that are the issue where anger crimes and hate crimes are concerned? We are a flawed species in many respects. Emotional maturity is missing in many of we humans. Scientists used to say, by way of defining the human species, “man is the rational animal”. Well, these breakdowns in American society put the lie to that interpretation. We are in dire need of recognizing the deficits of human nature. I think we need a lot more self awareness, and it’s that lack of that self awareness and inability to deal with these darker angels, like anger off the charts, that is at least part of the problem, IMO. And, since that ain’t easy, and may never happen, easy access to things like assault rifles is part of the problem. Severe anger management issues + guns.

No its behaviour, behaviour is not a mental health issue, people have choice they have agency, the fact they continue to make bad choices is not a medical problem, its a socialisation problem. I've spent most of my working life working with people with acute mental health issues and others in some form of crisis. Its not human defects, its a bunch of things, mostly brain chemistry, followed by drugs, alcohol, social circumstance, upbringing and increasingly exposure to mental health professionals filling their heads full of ****.
 

Rubashov

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
Beyond contesting it you can just go buy a gun advertised by someone in craigs list or something. No muss, no fuss, no checks. My brother is a felon and he owns like 3 guns he got from friends and relatives. He is very passive, being catfished heavily atm, so I have zero qualms about it, but I know he has them. I would guess that many if not most or even close to all felons in the US that have that propensity do actually possess firearms.

Interesting thing about these mass shootings is that seldom is it someone with more than a minor brush with the law. Most of the people carrying these out are first-time or minor offenders. It isn't the hardened criminal with 2 convictions on their record. It is the marginalized (as they perceive it) loner with a grudge who has fallen deep enough into their own little world to see that as the best option and most viable way to right the perceived wrongs. More than a few have been incels, for example, by practice if nothing else, but some even active parts of the incel communities. This should tell us a lot about the psychology of what drives a mass shooter in general. Someone who feels they have been dealt a bad hand and sees no way out then wants to inflict their pain on others, maybe those they perceive unfairly get a good hand, or have been the ones marginalizing them, like "Chads" or women in general in the case of incels, for example, can easily turn to violence to get their due and right their wrongs, as they see it. It is a vicious and frightening thing because there is no way to anticipate it, no way to stop it, no way to address it beforehand. You just really have no idea who is heading that way. Sure they always point to online presence and comments and such ex post facto, but when you get into that data you find it is still 1 in a thousand who are making the exact same kinds of comments until the one who shoots subtly changes their tone right before the attack. So how do you suss out the one in a thousand who are spouting off the exact same way online? Do we just take them all down? How do you get help to someone with zero support group and other unstable people in their lives who don't even know enough to realize they need help, or who might not want it?

A good example of some of this is Jake Davidson, an incel in england who went out with a shotgun shooting randomly in his neighborhood and killed 5 people in the span of 6 minutes including his own mother, and a 3 year old girl and her father. No rhyme or reason. He was going to show the world how he felt being marginalized in his perception. It says here they were going to pass new legislation, but how do you legislate for something like this? So you stop the hate speech on one platform or another, and they find a new one or go to the dark web or whatever. It is like trying to hold all the sand in your bare hands as more and more is poured in, you just can't do it.

Where the hell do we go from here?



What's an incel?
 


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