Bin Laden is dead

[One Brow]

Any and every anti-terrorism training I have been to; whether taught by Feds or local PD, is to "treat every terrorist as if they are a bomb" especially given the Beslan atrocities.

Do they teach you to shoot every terrorist dead, even after they have surrendered, because they might be a bomb?

 

[SaltyDawg]

okay and if he has a dead mans switch. shooting him in the head might blow the whole compound including ALL the SEALs

Depending on how close they were when they shot him, it was probably less of a risk than letting him blow himself up if he's wearing an explosive vest.

 

[SaltyDawg]

No one was talking about saving OBL's life in this context. Those are the things you keep throwing in there that change the meaning of what was being said. No one was claiming they should risk their lives to SAVE HIS LIFE. You keep pretending you get it and some kind of conversation is going on around it but you keep changing the meaning of it all and act as if everyone should see it that way.

Oh and this was Dutch's response that shows apparently he gets what you are saying. Apparently he agrees with me about how you view things:



Exactly what I said. You misquote or point out things that were not said as evidence for your arguments.

Yes, he IS talking about saving his life. He said the Israelies value life, and this is what they do. Stop embarrassing yourself man. He is saying Bin laden could have been taken down and held to prevent him from hitting the trigger on the theoretical suicide bomber vest. While this puts the guy who jumped on him at great risk, it lessens the risk to everyone else- and Bin Laden gets out alive, because, you know, the Israelies value all human life.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Yes, he IS talking about saving his life. He said the Israelies value life, and this is what they do. Stop embarrassing yourself man. He is saying Bin laden could have been taken down and held to prevent him from hitting the trigger on the theoretical suicide bomber vest. While this puts the guy who jumped on him at great risk, it lessens the risk to everyone else- and Bin Laden gets out alive, because, you know, the Israelies value all human life.

value life means doing a lot to catch them alive. and only kill when other lifes are in IMMINENT danger

 

[SaltyDawg]

value life means doing a lot to catch them alive. and only kill when other lifes are in IMMINENT danger

See, the thing you keep missing here is, we make no apologies about it- we flat out did not value Bin Laden's life. If most American's didn't, you can bet the SEALs who were there didn't either.

We KNOW we didn't value his life. We aren't here trying to prove we did. We flat out admit we did not value his life. The dude got what he deserved- justice was served.

There have been plenty of terrorists taken alive. Of course they know how to do it and do value life. Bin Laden was someone who deserved to die.

We weren't there with an "only kill him if you absolutely have to" attitude. We were there with an "only let him live if you absolutely have to" attitude.

If there was any possible way to kill him and make it legal, it was going to happen.

 

[LogGrad98]

Yes, he IS talking about saving his life. He said the Israelies value life, and this is what they do. Stop embarrassing yourself man. He is saying Bin laden could have been taken down and held to prevent him from hitting the trigger on the theoretical suicide bomber vest. While this puts the guy who jumped on him at great risk, it lessens the risk to everyone else- and Bin Laden gets out alive, because, you know, the Israelies value all human life.

Dutch's original post:

he could also have a deadman switch and by killing him you take everyone out.

sometimes a "suicide bomber takedown" helps in these kind of situations its a take down which ends wit the terroist on the floor flat and the hero lying on top of him. sacrificng his life for the rest sort of like jumping on a grenade. but on a much grander scale.

the siraelis have extensive knowledge of this cus sometimes you take the guy out dead man switch boom
sometimes you dont take him out presses the button boom


the suiicde bomber is a last resort. if he has no death man switch it can be done without loss of lie

if he has a deathmans swicth it is done with minimal loss of life.

Bold = suicide bomber (i.e. OBL) DIES in the original scenario presented. Only the last 2 lines imply it could be done with MINIMAL loss of life, again no assertion that the bomber lives, and that is can be done without loss of life. No matter how you slice it the Seal jumping on the guy is doing it to save the other Seals primarily. If they keep the guy alive, that is good too, but not the purpose of it.

You really need to go re-read before misquoting.

 

[Boondocksaint27]

Do they teach you to shoot every terrorist dead, even after they have surrendered, because they might be a bomb?

Actually yes, or rather it depends on the context. If it is a school takeover as Beslan was, and given the tactics of suicide bombers to lure in as many targets as possible, that terrorist has not truly surrendered until you can be 100% certain that they have not made their person a weapon of some kind. In a situation such as a raid on a terrorist compound, or while responding to a armed takeover, these people's actions have already proven that they dont want to "surrender". Given the recent bombs found on potential terrorists (i.e. body-cavity bombs, shoe bombs, etc.) these terrorsts have dictated themselves, the tactics with which this battle against terrorism will be fought.

 

[Boondocksaint27]

my original point is we should value all human life. and the way obls death or (possible execution) was celbrated , Obeezy going on tv screaming "justice is done"(while people disagree wether it is justice or not). showed a severe lack of respect for loss of human life. he was the enemy of the united states you should be sort of happy you're enemy is no more. but still loss of life is always a tragedy. you cant just celebrate a man's death no matter who that man is. if we go down the path of celebrating certain peoples deaths it leads to a slippery role. by celebrating america(or atleast part of it) showed me they are no different than the guys who where celebrating the tragedy at 10 years ago. (after saying this i might be put on some sort of tsa blacklist. might get some nasty treatment on some airports)

dont tell me the this is war part. war isn't personal. the "war on terror" was personal. from my point of view. and quite honestly cant really blame you. even though i am not an American i remember that exact same day what i was doing when where and what i was thinking. so (think) I can imagine at least how much 911 hurts to the americans. i wont mourn for obl. i wont celebrate. i jsut wonder what went on.

we must not turn into animals. we must have compassion for human life.

just a qoute to leave you guys with : "Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."

I was really trying my hardest to ignore you, but did you really just equate America celebrating the death of a terrorist and public enemy #1 to be "no different" then those who celebrated that slaughter of 3,000+ innocent men, women, and children who wanted nothing more then for September 11, 2001 to be just another day.

“Justice is the firm and continuous desire to render to everyone that which is his due”

 

[One Brow]

Actually yes, or rather it depends on the context. If it is a school takeover as Beslan was, ...

In that situation, I can certainly see the prudence of making sure, and although I find it dsiturbing, I also find it difficult to fault.

However, this was a raid on a terrorist's residence, which I'm sure you'll agree is a different context.

 

[One Brow]

See, the thing you keep missing here is, we make no apologies about it- we flat out did not value Bin Laden's life. If most American's didn't, you can bet the SEALs who were there didn't either.

So, you have no problems with the government killing off undesireable people. OK.

 

[TheDude]

Sometimes IEDs explode when you don't want them to (if they are sensitive to work as IEDs). Blowing himself up by accident is something I would think he avoided.

You are arguing to just argue then. Does he sound like a reasonable man to you? He could have EASILY had the entire place wired to blow up. Even Obama said in his 60 Minutes interview that the Seals had no idea what they were walking into in the form of booby traps (Doors ready to explode when opened, etc etc etc)

 

[TheDude]

It sure is a good thing that the good old US of A doesn't put up with BS from terrorists or tyrannical leaders. Otherwise the idiot on the other end of this "value of life debate" would be called GermanJazzer.