Boston Marathon explosions......

[The Black Swordsman]

I noticed you didn't respond to the actual quote from Hitler's Table Talk. Is that canard finally dead?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim-majority_countries

Is there one country on this list that does not see active Muslim persecution of religious minorities and is not officially secular?

Sorry I was meaning to but got other posts around same time. Basically Hitlers sentiment was the same as most people who describe themselves as atheist. Don't really know about god but I hate religion. "Knows" that the god views by theists is entirely wrong even if he does exist. If you read the book I even linked rather then the wikipedia you would have probably gotten that. But the difference between me and you is you like secondary sources by wikipedia while I prefer primary sources written by the original author/scientist.

For siromar

Lol Al-Ghazali was right smack dab in the middle of the Islamic golden age, if he came towards the end of it I could maybe see atheists using him as a scapegoat but it is foolish to say that any of fall of Islam should be attributed to him. If you like Descartes you will love Ghazali.

Basically the Qur'an says to defend yourself when you are getting attacked. Osama Bin Laden viewed himself as acting in self defense. It would be too juvenile minded to blame Islam.

 

[One Brow]

Sorry I was meaning to but got other posts around same time. Basically Hitlers sentiment was the same as most people who describe themselves as atheist.

Man has discovered in nature the wonderful notion of that all-mighty being whose law he worships.

Most people who describe themself as an atheist, that I read, would never say that sort of mystic nonsense. They would certainly not say they want to avoid educating people in atheism. You're just wrong.

If you read the book I even linked rather then the wikipedia

Ir you had read the book you linked, you would have realized that the long quote at the end of my post came directly from the book you linked, including the typo.

you would have probably gotten that. But the difference between me and you is you like secondary sources by wikipedia while I prefer primary sources written by the original author/scientist.

This would be more persuasive if you recognized when such a source was quoted.

 

[Stoked]

Most people who describe themself as an atheist, that I read, would never say that sort of mystic nonsense. They would certainly not say they want to avoid educating people in atheism. You're just wrong.



Ir you had read the book you linked, you would have realized that the long quote at the end of my post came directly from the book you linked, including the typo.



This would be more persuasive if you recognized when such a source was quoted.

Hahaha. Nice Brow. Nice

 

[One Brow]

The only other times Hitler mentions atheism in Table Talk:

An educated man retains the sense of the mysteries of nature and bows before the unknowable. An uneducated man, on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism (which is a return to the state of the animal) as soon as he perceives that the State, in sheer opportunism, is making use of false ideas in the matter of religion, whilst in other fields it bases everything on pure science.

In the trade union formed by the Church, many of the members have tangible interests to defend, and see no further. A given set of grimaces, certain people identify them with true religion. After that, let's express surprise that these cynical exploiters of God are the true purveyors of atheism.

So, in these three quotes, where precisely so you see Hitler identifying as an atheist? When he equates it with returning to an animal state?

 

[MVP]

Ir you had read the book you linked, you would have realized that the long quote at the end of my post came directly from the book you linked, including the typo.
.

Man, that is not even fair... it is like NBA team playing vs second league of Albania.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

One brow you mentioned wikipedia when quoting, so obviously you used it.

Now when someone like Carl Sagan or Einstein trashes atheism all the atheists jump on them saying "oh they are practical atheists even if they deny it, they hate religion, don't believe in a personal god etc etc." Now Hitler does it despite talking negatively about christianity and wanting to destroy religion but he is no practical atheist anylonger.

Now I have already linked a Harvard paper discussing that Muslims do less violence than Christians. Here is FBI material about Muslim terrorism attacks.

"Supplimenting FBI Data from 1950-2005 Saying only 6% of Terrorist Attacks Were Committed by Muslims, Europol Released a Report Saying From 2006-2008, Less Than .5% Attacks Were Committed by Muslims."

https://www.loonwatch.com/2011/11/updated-europol-data-less-than-1-of-terrorist-attacks-by-muslims/

Less than .5% of attacks were committed by Muslims within a 2 year time frame, Muslims are about 25% of the world's population.

All you guys have been able to give me for sources are specific case by case examples of individual Muslims or countries causing violence. Once again you guys are picking the black sheep of the Muslim community and labeling them as exemplary Muslims.

I have given FBI data and a Harvard paper showing you guys are wrong.

 

[Stoked]

One brow you mentioned wikipedia when quoting, so obviously you used it.

Now when someone like Carl Sagan or Einstein trashes atheism all the atheists jump on them saying "oh they are practical atheists even if they deny it, they hate religion, don't believe in a personal god etc etc." Now Hitler does it despite talking negatively about christianity and wanting to destroy religion but he is no practical atheist anylonger.

Now I have already linked a Harvard paper discussing that Muslims do less violence than Christians. Here is FBI material about Muslim terrorism attacks.

"Supplimenting FBI Data from 1950-2005 Saying only 6% of Terrorist Attacks Were Committed by Muslims, Europol Released a Report Saying From 2006-2008, Less Than .5% Attacks Were Committed by Muslims."

https://www.loonwatch.com/2011/11/updated-europol-data-less-than-1-of-terrorist-attacks-by-muslims/

Less than .5% of attacks were committed by Muslims within a 2 year time frame, Muslims are about 25% of the world's population.

All you guys have been able to give me for sources are specific case by case examples of individual Muslims or countries causing violence. Once again you guys are picking the black sheep of the Muslim community and labeling them as exemplary Muslims.

I have given FBI data and a Harvard paper showing you guys are wrong.

No we did not. If you want to blatantly and knowingly lie to yourself to make yourself feel better feel free. No one else is buying it though.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

No we did not. If you want to blatantly and knowingly lie to yourself to make yourself feel better feel free. No one else is buying it though.

Maybe not you but Siro sure did.

 

[TroutBum]

I respect Siro on the subject, since you know, he used to be one of "them"... And I'm pretty sure that TBS is Tink in disguise and he gets a hard on just thinking about trolling this hard, but I am going to jump in and say:

TBS is right, sorta. I find it repulsive how Americans are so quick to judge a religion based on the actions of a very small minority. How many millions of Muslims are there in the world? How many are terrorists? Exactly. Stop blaming everything on "them". It seriously makes me ill whenever I hear some dumbass talk show host blame all of the worlds woe on Islam.

Siro is wrong, sorta. Dude, you have to admit, you can't step back and look at this subject objectively. You hate Islam, period. Most of the stuff you say is spot on and well thought out, but other stuff -- especially in this thread -- is horrible.

 

[MVP]

Now when someone like Carl Sagan or Einstein trashes atheism all the atheists jump on them saying "oh they are practical atheists even if they deny it, they hate religion, don't believe in a personal god etc etc."

Who jumps on them? Sagan did not believe in god, period. He was agnostic - the only difference is he leaves a possibility that something like "creator" may exist. He thrashed islam, christianity or any other organized man made faith, not atheism.

His last wife, Ann Druyan, stated:

When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me—it still sometimes happens—and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don't ever expect to be reunited with Carl.

There are millions of people who believe in illusion of afterlife, god, heaven, whatever. Carl Sagan was not one of them! I suggest you never use him as example here.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Who jumps on them? Sagan did not believe in god, period. He was agnostic - the only difference is he leaves a possibility that something like "creator" may exist. He thrashed islam, christianity or any other organized man made faith, not atheism.

His last wife, Ann Druyan, stated:

When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me—it still sometimes happens—and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don't ever expect to be reunited with Carl.

There are millions of people who believe in illusion of afterlife, god, heaven, whatever. Carl Sagan was not one of them! I suggest you never use him as example here.

"An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence." - Carl Sagan

Yet atheists still claim Carl Sagan to be an atheist. If Carl Sagan was an atheist Hitler was also an atheist as Hitler didn't believe in "illusions" and trashed religion.

 

[Stoked]

I respect Siro on the subject, since you know, he used to be one of "them"... And I'm pretty sure that TBS is Tink in disguise and he gets a hard on just thinking about trolling this hard, but I am going to jump in and say:

TBS is right, sorta. I find it repulsive how Americans are so quick to judge a religion based on the actions of a very small minority. How many millions of Muslims are there in the world? How many are terrorists? Exactly. Stop blaming everything on "them". It seriously makes me ill whenever I hear some dumbass talk show host blame all of the worlds woe on Islam.

Siro is wrong, sorta. Dude, you have to admit, you can't step back and look at this subject objectively. You hate Islam, period. Most of the stuff you say is spot on and well thought out, but other stuff -- especially in this thread -- is horrible.

It is sad how that is done. However I understand how it is done as well. Most Americans have no direct link to the Muslim faith. They do not know any. So to them Muslims are what their world figures are. Often those world figures are part of that extremely small minority and tarnish the whole religion. Kind of like how people with no link to America think America is like Hollywood.