Burks is the reason we're winning games
- Thread starter fallenchicken
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Getting Traded
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No wonder you like Corbin. You have something in common. You're both poor judges of talent.
fishonjazz
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And not just by people on this website either
Im hearing media making the comparison now too
Yup. At this point, the kid is a keeper.
Zulu
Well-Known Member
Don't hate!!
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
I think some here are oddly overlooking the fact that Harden didn't step onto an NBA court and look like the Harden of today right away. people that are comparing Burks to Harden are obviously projecting Burks' potential out a few years based on Burks development this season. When you compare the stage of development of Burks this season with Harden's second season, I think the comparison has some merit. Now I know that Burks seems just as likely to become Rodney Stuckey as he is to become Harden, but if I were in charge with the Jazz i would be expending every last resource to focus on Burks development, coach Burks, teach Burks, improve his J, develop his work ethic, help him understand the game, build his confidence, etc. Burks is the type of player that with his athleticism (properly harnessed of course) can become a star player. To me what will stand in his way are B-ball IQ (i.e. not becoming a chucker and doing the little things to help win) and his jumpshot. I believe he absolutely can be coached up to improve these areas. This is why I have actually agreed with the way Burks has been handled, for the most part. He is a wild horse that needs some breaking. I am very curious to see how Burks does next year with a new coach that is able to develop an offense that does more than create long two pointers or left block post-ups and hopefully be a new voice that can help Burks get to that next level. Chad Ford did an interview on ESPN700 this week and said sometimes players need a new voice in the locker room to help them elevate to a new level. I think the Jazz are at that point with this young group of guys.
Part of the fun of watching young players is trying to project what they might become. Harden really started to break out in March of his second season. Let's be honest, Burks has not had the same Burks seems to be clicking in more as well, like Harden did. the question is then if Burks makes that next leap. Gordon had a very promising end to his second season that tracked Harden's development but then never really made the leap. Look i know Burks will likely not reach Harden's offensive ability. Harden has some incredible efficiency that Burks will never reach. But Harden wasn't Harden at one point, and it's unclear what Alec can become.
Here are some tidbits from Harden's 2010-2011 season:
- Harden had ten 20 pt games all regular season, with a high of 26 pts. of course Durant and Westbrook gobbled up a lot of scoring opportunities, but Hayward and Burkes gobble up (and squander) a ton too. Burks has already had ten 20 point games.
- Harden had a really, really poor December and February but a really strong March (scored in double figures every game but one). I remember watching Harden that winter and thinking he kinda sucked, and then March happened and i started loving his game. Lets wait and see if Burks starts to click in even more. Burks had a very poor November, but his December-February stats look pretty good, better than all of Harden's months except that March. Harden in his third year then consistently played like he did in March of his second year and even upped his percentages across the board. Take a look at Burks average January numbers. can Burks now make that his consistent level for next season? who knows. But if so, how can you not be excited by that? And Burks may yet turn in a March that is even better than his January. My only complaint is seeing some wild swings in consistency with Burks. That is what made Harden's March-April so great is he was consistently in double figures on decent %s.
- Harden had 55% of his attempts assisted that year. Burks is at 35% assisted this year. You can take that one of two ways - Burks prefers to take it himself in iso more or Harden had more easy opportunities created for him. I think its more the latter. This is why i think Burks next to a great creator would be even better. It seems that Burks plays better with Hayward and Burke (both semi-decent creators). I love to see Burks lurk around the baseline and also attack the paint after the defense has started to scramble a bit as a secondary ball handler.
- Their PERs appear to be around the same (hovering above 15, not sub-15). It's hard to tell Harden's from 82games.com because they list PER by position. Burks PER is 15.65 so far this season.
- Harden's efg% was higher than Burks. .518% vs. .472% Harden is just a better jump shooter. I think Burks can improve with better shot selection and training. Burks absolutely needs to shoot over 80% with as much as he gets to the line, though. That's another thing that hurts his offensive efficiency.
The basic box score stats and some scoring stats for 2010-2011 Harden and 2013-2014 Burks are below.
HARDEN
ESPN.com Stats
10-'11 •
• OKC
82 5 26.7 3.6-8.3 .436 1.4-4.0 .349 3.5-4.2 .843 0.5 2.6 3.1 2.1 0.3 1.1 2.5 1.3 12.2
82games.com Stats
Player Stats
Scoring
By FG. FGA FG% eFG% Ast'd Blk'd FTM Pts
Game 3.6 8.3 .436 .518 57% 7% 3.5 12.2
Player 48-Minute Production by Position
FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
PG 97.6 .000 .0 0% 48.8 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0
SG 12.8 .502 6.2 25% 5.5 3.4 2.0 .5 4.6 18.2 14.2
SF 20.8 .551 11.6 36% 5.7 5.2 3.4 .6 4.5 32.4 25.0
PF 26.1 .500 .0 0% 10.5 .0 .0 .0 .0 26.1 19.0
C
BURKS
ESPN.com Stats
13-'14 •
• UTAH
52 8 27.3 4.7-10.6 .446 0.6-1.7 .348 3.4-4.5 .752 0.7 2.5 3.2 2.6 0.2 0.8 2.3 1.8 13.4
82games.com Stats
Scoring
By FG. FGA FG% eFG% Ast'd Blk'd FTM Pts
Game 4.7 10.5 .445 .472 38% 8% 3.1 13.1
Player 48-Minute Production by Position
FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
PG 16.9 .311 6.9 10% 4.6 5.0 1.4 .0 5.5 16.5 8.5
SG 18.0 .485 6.9 34% 5.4 4.7 3.1 .5 3.9 22.8 15.4
SF 22.3 .500 10.5 44% 7.9 5.9 2.6 .0 3.3 28.2 20.6
PF
C
Part of the fun of watching young players is trying to project what they might become. Harden really started to break out in March of his second season. Let's be honest, Burks has not had the same Burks seems to be clicking in more as well, like Harden did. the question is then if Burks makes that next leap. Gordon had a very promising end to his second season that tracked Harden's development but then never really made the leap. Look i know Burks will likely not reach Harden's offensive ability. Harden has some incredible efficiency that Burks will never reach. But Harden wasn't Harden at one point, and it's unclear what Alec can become.
Here are some tidbits from Harden's 2010-2011 season:
- Harden had ten 20 pt games all regular season, with a high of 26 pts. of course Durant and Westbrook gobbled up a lot of scoring opportunities, but Hayward and Burkes gobble up (and squander) a ton too. Burks has already had ten 20 point games.
- Harden had a really, really poor December and February but a really strong March (scored in double figures every game but one). I remember watching Harden that winter and thinking he kinda sucked, and then March happened and i started loving his game. Lets wait and see if Burks starts to click in even more. Burks had a very poor November, but his December-February stats look pretty good, better than all of Harden's months except that March. Harden in his third year then consistently played like he did in March of his second year and even upped his percentages across the board. Take a look at Burks average January numbers. can Burks now make that his consistent level for next season? who knows. But if so, how can you not be excited by that? And Burks may yet turn in a March that is even better than his January. My only complaint is seeing some wild swings in consistency with Burks. That is what made Harden's March-April so great is he was consistently in double figures on decent %s.
- Harden had 55% of his attempts assisted that year. Burks is at 35% assisted this year. You can take that one of two ways - Burks prefers to take it himself in iso more or Harden had more easy opportunities created for him. I think its more the latter. This is why i think Burks next to a great creator would be even better. It seems that Burks plays better with Hayward and Burke (both semi-decent creators). I love to see Burks lurk around the baseline and also attack the paint after the defense has started to scramble a bit as a secondary ball handler.
- Their PERs appear to be around the same (hovering above 15, not sub-15). It's hard to tell Harden's from 82games.com because they list PER by position. Burks PER is 15.65 so far this season.
- Harden's efg% was higher than Burks. .518% vs. .472% Harden is just a better jump shooter. I think Burks can improve with better shot selection and training. Burks absolutely needs to shoot over 80% with as much as he gets to the line, though. That's another thing that hurts his offensive efficiency.
The basic box score stats and some scoring stats for 2010-2011 Harden and 2013-2014 Burks are below.
HARDEN
ESPN.com Stats
10-'11 •
• OKC
82 5 26.7 3.6-8.3 .436 1.4-4.0 .349 3.5-4.2 .843 0.5 2.6 3.1 2.1 0.3 1.1 2.5 1.3 12.2
82games.com Stats
Player Stats
Scoring
By FG. FGA FG% eFG% Ast'd Blk'd FTM Pts
Game 3.6 8.3 .436 .518 57% 7% 3.5 12.2
Player 48-Minute Production by Position
FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
PG 97.6 .000 .0 0% 48.8 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0
SG 12.8 .502 6.2 25% 5.5 3.4 2.0 .5 4.6 18.2 14.2
SF 20.8 .551 11.6 36% 5.7 5.2 3.4 .6 4.5 32.4 25.0
PF 26.1 .500 .0 0% 10.5 .0 .0 .0 .0 26.1 19.0
C
BURKS
ESPN.com Stats
13-'14 •
• UTAH
52 8 27.3 4.7-10.6 .446 0.6-1.7 .348 3.4-4.5 .752 0.7 2.5 3.2 2.6 0.2 0.8 2.3 1.8 13.4
82games.com Stats
Scoring
By FG. FGA FG% eFG% Ast'd Blk'd FTM Pts
Game 4.7 10.5 .445 .472 38% 8% 3.1 13.1
Player 48-Minute Production by Position
FGA eFG% FTA iFG Reb Ast T/O Blk PF Pts PER*
PG 16.9 .311 6.9 10% 4.6 5.0 1.4 .0 5.5 16.5 8.5
SG 18.0 .485 6.9 34% 5.4 4.7 3.1 .5 3.9 22.8 15.4
SF 22.3 .500 10.5 44% 7.9 5.9 2.6 .0 3.3 28.2 20.6
PF
C
fishonjazz
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Comparing burks to harden is an embarrassment, but go on
fishonjazz
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You will come around
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
People making up simple stats to help them make an argument is an embarrassment, but go on.
The irony is that people were doing the same thing to Hayward last year, looking at stats that put him pretty close to some superstars. Now everyone hates Hayward and he sucks.
Super interested to see how we feel about Burks next year if he chooses not to sign an extension.
Same thing happened to Millsap last year. Utah fans are unique in their quickness to turn on proven players for unproven/unlikely-to-prove talent. Reading it is like watching that Alaska gold hunting show & poor people buying lotto's -- the next one is going to be the big winner.
True, I forgot how many people loved Millsap, then he rejected the extension and he just turned into an OK undersized PF.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Omg. People comparing Burks to Harden?
Y'all are actually ****ing morons. Wow.
Y'all are actually ****ing morons. Wow.
D
Deleted member 848
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James Harden, in his last season with OKC, turned out one of the most efficient seasons in 6th-man history by almost every offensive metric imaginable. His shooting was sublime, he would regularly close games running the point ahead of the likes of Westbrook and Durant, and his production has only exploded since.
My God, you guys. If we can't even put Burks that far ahead of the likes of Nick Young, or Rodney Stuckey, why on earth are we comparing him to James Harden?
My God, you guys. If we can't even put Burks that far ahead of the likes of Nick Young, or Rodney Stuckey, why on earth are we comparing him to James Harden?
D
Deleted member 848
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l-m-a-o. Said by write4u, of all people.
Then why have no fellow athletes, coaches, or even the US Olympic team, given any sort of mention to the skills of Alec Burks?
Hayward was drawing praise on his first break-out performances. Burks dropped 30 on the Heat- did Lebron, or anyone on the Heat, say anything?
Hayward > Burks plain and simple.
The fact is that Hayward is able to make the whole team better, even when he shoots like absolute dog crap. Not a whole lot of players, especially wings, can do that.
Burks is getting better in this regard, he use to have negative to no positive impact on others. He will never be on Hayward's level in that regard though imo. Burks is such a relentless attacker that for him to be able to have the awareness for others would be very difficult, which is what makes Burks good at what he does.
Burks is getting better in this regard, he use to have negative to no positive impact on others. He will never be on Hayward's level in that regard though imo. Burks is such a relentless attacker that for him to be able to have the awareness for others would be very difficult, which is what makes Burks good at what he does.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Yup. It's also impressive how Gordon doesn't almost ever make "bad-decisions"-- those decisions can (quite-often, in this season at least) be misses, but those misses tend to be good attempts, are within the offense, and are simply good decisions in general. Coaches around the league have noticed this as well, which is why he has been a pretty-much permanent fixture of the training squad for the US Olympic team (ahead of the likes of Chandler Parsons, who I'm sure many of you think is better than Hayward).
Alec Burks on the other hand? How many times have we seen that dribble away-from-the-screen-pull-up jumper-from-a-foot-inside-the-three-point-line?
His decision-making has improved leaps and bounds, and he continues to improve-- but Hayward's is simply on another level IMO.