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Burks / Kanter extensions ???

GVC said:
1. Contracts don't need to be fully guaranteed in the NBA, and some aren't.

2. 4 or 5 year contracts aren't really that long. Contrary to what you posted, the MLB and NHL have longer contracts, with the former generally being fully guaranteed (IIRC). In the NHL, a team must pay 2/3 the remaining value of a contract to buy out a player aged 26+.

3. The stretch provision provides quite a bit of wiggle room for teams that make a mistake by overpaying.

4. Keep in mind, the players have to agree to any changes. It's unlikely that the median NBA player is going to shrug their shoulders, give up guaranteed money, and gladly give up a cap on max contracts (which effectively redistribute revenue to lower caliber players).
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Excellent Points and I agree.

Especially with #4. Which is why there will be another strike in a few years....
 
Harcher said:
So...
question #0: will the old-cap new/cap $$ even make a difference? (the money just fills in the same partitioning of the money, its just larger bins.)

question #1: is it even possible to think that a Core 5 of very good "near all stars" could be a contender? We have Pistons as the only sample of this. Do you consider the "older duncan & ginobili" spurs this also?

question #2: does the Jazz actually have a enough of a core to do this?

question #3 how do you see paying the core in 'new cap $$'
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0. Margins should get better for owners under the current CBA, so more owners may be willing to dip into the luxury tax. Otherwise, depending on how they phase in the increase in revenues, things should stabilize fairly quickly since NBA contracts are relatively short.

1. 5 near all-stars? Some players who missed the all-star game last season? Cousins, Lowry, Jefferson, Dragic, Drummond, Ibaka, Kawhi, Klay Thompson, Lance Stephenson, Gordo, Parsons, Wes Matthews, Isaiah Thomas, Ty Lawson...A little thin on the wing, but you might be able to construct a championship team with the right timing.

2. The Jazz still need to add talent IMO. The roster as is might be able to make the playoffs in a couple years, but I don't see how the current collection of players ever turns into a 50+ win team.

3. No idea.
 
It's not necessarily the players who are holding up the talks. We really don't know how DL values either of these guys. Kevin Pelton was telling Locke based on his advanced stat predictions, he would only offer Burks 6-8 million a year. And said he wouldn't offer Kanter anything significant. We just don't know.
 
Harcher said:
question #0: will the old-cap new/cap $$ even make a difference? (the money just fills in the same partitioning of the money, its just larger bins.)

question #1: is it even possible to think that a Core 5 of very good "near all stars" could be a contender? We have Pistons as the only sample of this. Do you consider the "older duncan & ginobili" spurs this also?

question #2: does the Jazz actually have a enough of a core to do this?

question #3 how do you see paying the core in 'new cap $$'
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My 2 cents on these questions:
0- I think it does make a difference and so there will be a near term window for a 'balanced' (pay wise) team to make some noise. OKC is in a good spot with young "big 2" to keep them and some good, well paid 2nd tier players.

1 - I think the spurs have shown this is possible, (some draft luck prolly still necessary) And the overt imitation by the Jazz, will show that it can be emulated with success.

2 - I think the Jazz are a piece or two away, just from the probabilities. If Gobert breaks out or if Exum breaks out for example, Jazz would have the right pieces.

3. Pay Burks. I don't need any more time to evaluate that. Kanter is still TBD.
 
Jazz4ever said:
It's not necessarily the players who are holding up the talks. We really don't know how DL values either of these guys. Kevin Pelton was telling Locke based on his advanced stat predictions, he would only offer Burks 6-8 million a year. And said he wouldn't offer Kanter anything significant. We just don't know.
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And he may be right.
I'm still not sold on Kanter. He has to show me something defensively. Also, the emergence of Gobert makes playing Favors some at PF a real possibility. Then the Jazz go with someone like Booker and draft a PF to develop.

I think the priority will be to get Burks signed, but not if the deal is too rich. I'm perfectly ok with Hayward and Hood as the starting wings if Alec doesn't return. However, as noted, Hayward can opt out in 3 years and will likely get offers >$20M. Even with a bigger cap, that's still a lot of money for a guy who isn't a star.
 
I think you have to at least try to get them at a decent bargain. Especially with possibility of the cap increasing. I'd offer both around 8-10 and see if they take it. We don't want to get stuck paying another Hayward deal.

There are more reasons to extend them now, than there is not to imo. I'm never gonna count on saving our cap space for some great free agent. I don't have that kind of faith in our team. I kinda think we should go all in on this homegrown team thing. We have to pay somebody anyways. Might as well bite on some potential. Both Burks and Kanter still have a bunch of potential.
 
^^^
Agree with Hack. You certainly extend an offer to each one. Even if you miss on Kanter (or Burks), a contract in the $8-10M range isn't devastating. It's only for 4 years. I don't see either accepting an offer that low. Unfortunately, Hayward getting a max deal from Charlotte really distorts values.
 
Hack said:
I think you have to at least try to get them at a decent bargain. Especially with possibility of the cap increasing. I'd offer both around 8-10 and see if they take it. We don't want to get stuck paying another Hayward deal.

There are more reasons to extend them now, than there is not to imo. I'm never gonna count on saving our cap space for some great free agent. I don't have that kind of faith in our team. I kinda think we should go all in on this homegrown team thing. We have to pay somebody anyways. Might as well bite on some potential. Both Burks and Kanter still have a bunch of potential.
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This
 
Agree with Hack. 8-10 sounds fair for both players. I don't think they will take them though.

For those interested, Zach Lowe thinks that Burks will be the one extended:

Extension talks are in chaos as teams and agents wait for the league to provide salary cap clarity. Teams might be eager to lock in long-term deals that will morph into bargains, but agents are wary of signing long-term contracts for the same reason. Being known for signing an under-market contract is bad for luring future clients.

As a wing player who has mostly come off the pine, Burks might settle more readily for a compromise number. Kanter is a big man with bigger dreams, and the Jazz have Derrick Favors and Rudy Gobert on the roster.
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I wonder what he means by "bigger dreams": A bigger role, playing in a big market....does he knows Kanter?

https://grantland.com/the-triangle/33-crazy-predictions-for-the-nba-season/
 
Hell no to extending Kanter. We don't know that he can play a role on the team that helps us win. If he wants to take 8 million a year, I would consider it, but even then I would have to think it over if I was DL.

I know Burks can help us win in a 6th man capacity. He can play a role for sure. I would try to extend him.
 
Cy said:
Hell no to extending Kanter. We don't know that he can play a role on the team that helps us win. If he wants to take 8 million a year, I would consider it, but even then I would have to think it over if I was DL.

I know Burks can help us win in a 6th man capacity. He can play a role for sure. I would try to extend him.
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Yeah, DL probably wants to see if Kanter can thrive under Quin's new system and help us win. So far I'm not impressed. He has this season to figure things out. The sooner the better....
 
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