Not to mention my favorite poster.
Central tank command : the official thread
- Thread starter Siro
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Not to mention my favorite poster.
I'm nowhere close to wrong. Statistically, the guy is Trey Burke. Eye test though, nowhere close. I have little doubt the guy will not become an all star and never had more hope for a rookie since Gobert, and pretty much nobody before him for as long as I've been a Jazz fan.
But let's not get ahead of ourselves and claim he's the 2nd best player. How many 1 for 10 games and 3 for 21 games has he had? He's not close to the top 5 right now. Give him time and he'll probably grow from his rookie stupidity just like Kobe did.
He has probably been our most consistent scorer. He has had fewer lapses/bad games than players like Hood, Burks, Favors and Sefolosha.
He has had exactly 5. three games of 1-7, a game of 1-10 and 1 game of 3-21. He has also had 6 games where he shot over 50% 3 of those bad games came in October. So since 11/1/17 when he started to figure it out he has only had 2 nights that bad.
Mitchell Career #s:
15.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.4 spg on 14.4 FGpg at %s of 39.2 FG, 35.6 3s and 82 Fts.
Burke Career #s:
10.6 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, .6 on 10.5 FGGpg at %s of 39% FG, 33.7 3s and 81.3 FTs.
So on overall FG%, FT% and APG they are equal. Mitchell leads everywhere else. Problem is that Burke has 3 years of little to no improvement and isn't in the league. Mitchell is held down by his 2 week learning curve coming into the league. You yourself hint at that not being indicative of who Mitchell is as a player. Take away his bad first few games and his #s go up even more. Let's see what he does with it. But I am already on the Mitchell bus. Kid will be an all star and it shows.
If you want to be hesitant before declaring him a stud that's fine. But he isn't Burke. He's already playing better than Burke ever did.
Always making me do research and learn more, that's why I like you.
In other words, you want to select which stats (all of yours used in apples to oranges comparison) matter and which don't. Let's pretend that Burke didn't produce even better than Mitchell has when he was given the green light at first. Let's forget about those 1 of 10, 6 of 19, 3 of 21, 5 of 14 & 5 of 15 performances from Mitchell and claim he's been the most consistent scorer when it's clear the only consistency he may have comes from his ability to chuck up shots. Trey Burke did the exact same thing and this place was raving about him in the exact same tone.
Now you're trying to move the goal posts lol. For everyone of those games by Mitchell Burke has three times as many simply because of sample size. lol The point is that Mitchell is trending upwards while Burke trended down.
Burke started trending down very fast. Mitchell trended up very fast. Also Burke never looked like this on the court.
That's basically what I've been saying for a while now. So what about his trend and the eyeball test makes him our 2nd or 3rd best player? Nothing. He's not anywhere close right now. That's not a knock on the kid, it's a comment on his stage in development.
Kinda digging this team right now. **** this thread mang.
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I have decided to enjoy the ride to the playoffs or the lottery. Let's do this!!!
I think it says as much about the other plays as it does him. To me his fire, leadership, scoring and defense make him better than most the team. Only players I can see to varying degrees are Gobert, Favors, Hood and Ingles. I'd say Mitchell is 3 maybe 4. You have him at 6 or 7.
Either way cheers! WOOT WOOT!!! Kid is a stud and I'm all in.
Anointing Mitchell because of Haywad feels? Dude, you need to calm down and accept Mitchell's greatness.
I LOVE Ingles but it's asinine to say he's better than Donovan. The Don is the primary reason we are coming back. He makes everyone around him better because they see his brilliance and play up to it. He has consistently provided the big plays on both offense and defense that have sparked us.
No he isnt. His stats are better all around not to mention his defense is night and day better. Comparing them at the same age their rookie year and especially this far into the season it isnt anywhere close.
sahlensguy
Well-Known Member
Yeah I think there is some bias going around about Mitchell not being our 2nd or even best player. If someone watched him for the first time and didn't know he was a rookie, he wouldn't be ranked far down the list, if at all. Besides his obvious physical ability, what jumps off the screen is also how he is the leader of the team. Sure he has had a few awful shooting nights, but so did Hayward, and he was our best player at that time.
Statistically tho, he is right in line with Trey Burke through his first full NBA rookie month. Frank said the eye test he was way ahead, but the stats have them as being the close to each other. Trey shot 41% from the field and 37% from 3, averaging 15-6-3 with 2 FTA per game in the month of December (he only played 6 games in November bec he broke his finger iirc).
Nothing Frank said was factually wrong.
Even if you compare their rookie years and assume Mitchell will produce at the same level and disregard where Trey was at this point in his rookie year they are not the same. Mitchell stats are already better than what Burke put up his rookie year. He is shooting better percentages on more shots and scoring more points. His defense stats are also much better.
At the exact same point in their careers Trey was shooting 36% from the field and scoring 11 ppg and 3 assists per game. Mitchell is at 39% from the field and scoring 15.3 ppg and dishing 3 assists per game. Mitchell's stats are better in almost every way. It might not be huge jumps but still better all around.
I would rank the Jazz players this season as:
1. Gobert
2a. Ingles
2b. Favors
2c. Hood
2d. Mitchell
2e. Rubio
Feel like you have to be stupid not to recognize Gobert as the best player. As for the others, everyone has played as the 2nd best player for games. There are some games Mitchell takes over and looks great. There are some games Hood or Favors do that. There even have been games where Rubio has done that. Ingles seems the most consistent to me in his role always making a positive impact. Hood has been the most consistent scorer. Mitchell has the widest variance of performance. Rubio has had great performances, but has started to understand doing less is more and is becoming more consistent.
1. Gobert
2a. Ingles
2b. Favors
2c. Hood
2d. Mitchell
2e. Rubio
Feel like you have to be stupid not to recognize Gobert as the best player. As for the others, everyone has played as the 2nd best player for games. There are some games Mitchell takes over and looks great. There are some games Hood or Favors do that. There even have been games where Rubio has done that. Ingles seems the most consistent to me in his role always making a positive impact. Hood has been the most consistent scorer. Mitchell has the widest variance of performance. Rubio has had great performances, but has started to understand doing less is more and is becoming more consistent.
They have been practically the same efficiency wise through their first 22 games (That's Mitchell current total and what Burke played in November+ December of his rookie year). Mitchell just took more shots and Burke averaged more assist.
And again, no one is saying Burke > Mitchell or even Burke = Mitchell. And Frank clearly said the eye test heavily favored Mitchell. Stop trying to argue Frank's post when there is nothing to argue about within it.
I wouldn't have included Rubio but this is pretty fair.
What if they watched the Bulls game where he scored 4 points on 1/10 shooting? I'm sorry, Mitchell had just had too many performances like that to call him the best or 2nd best player. That's not people saying he isnt going to be great. It's just people not getting ahead of themselves unnecessarily.
Rubio has had great games and was amazing to start the year and now he is starting to play well again. I probably shouldn't have made him 2e, but just given him his separate ranking because of his number of bad performances, but w/e.