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CHINA vs the NBA.

fishonjazz said:
Wasn't the revolutionary war all about our Independence from England. Maybe we should have just made signs and marched peacefully instead.
Same thing for the civil way. People who opposed slavery should have just peacefully protested.

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You try all those things first, but at some point the price of freedom is blood.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't think it should be called free speech when there is a very very large consequence/punishment/penalty for the speech. I call that very expensive speech.
Like if Morey's punishment for his tweet (which wasn't even offensive in the first place) was that he gets executed by decapitation then you could still say he was able to exercise his free speech (he was still able to say what he said) and that he knew the consequences would be death so it's his own fault really.
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Not sure I understand what your point is here. Unless the government has punished Morey directly, his rights to free speech have not been violated. There will always be consequences for the things we say and express. When the government is restricting speech, that's the problem.
 
fishonjazz said:
Americans who wanted Independence from England should have just backed down after being warned repeatedly right?
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We're comparing the situation in Hong Kong to the Revolutionary War now? A study from 2016, performed in Hong Kong, revealed that only 17.4% of Hong Kong citizens supported independence AFTER 2047, when the current agreement ends. The large majority, 70%, want to continue the "One Country, Two Systems" agreement. 14% supported direct governance from China.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/07/...ependence-2047-especially-youth-cuhk-survery/

This situation is nothing like the Revolutionary War. Are Americans supporting an independence war between Hong Kong and China, along with all of the death and carnage that would follow? When you look at it in this light, it's easy to understand why China doesn't want Western culture making the situation worse.

When Morey tweets "Fight for Freedom, Stand with Hong Kong", he's adding fuel to a fire that he doesn't completely understand.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Not sure I understand what your point is here. Unless the government has punished Morey directly, his rights to free speech have not been violated. There will always be consequences for the things we say and express. When the government is restricting speech, that's the problem.
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Except for free speech used to be a cultural expectation in the United States. This right here is complete bullcrap. Did people think that authoritarians wouldn't eventually lay hold of the "Cancel Culture" they so lovingly fashioned as a cudgel to beat those they disagreed with? No. We have a history of people being able to say controversial things and push the boundaries. Sometimes it is good, like the civil rights movement, sometimes it sucks, like the Eugenics crap, most of the time it means nothing, like Justin Bieber fandom.

What we have here is ANOTHER government punishing Americans for their speech. It is NOT remotely OK or understandable.
 
All this being said, the fact that Haywood's shoe contract is suspended made me guffaw just a little. Perhaps that was the point of the whole thing.

"Wait, who authorized those Christmas shoes!? Can this be stopped!?

Lower level staffer- "I've got a plan. Let me call my contact in the government."

But really. When the Hayward Christmas shoes come out, I plan on boycotting China by not buying them.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
We're comparing the situation in Hong Kong to the Revolutionary War now?
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No, you did that.
I saw a post saying that violence is never the answer and responded by saying that sometimes it is and provided one example.

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checkbookdoc said:
@AlaskanAssassin, I find your signature quote about individual rights to be in contrast to what seems to be your stance that the HK protesters should not be supported. Am I misunderstanding you?
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I have enormous respect for the people of Hong Kong that are protesting. I ABSOLUTELY support their right to protest. I hope a solution can be found that is acceptable to the people of Hong Kong that minimizes any more casualties.

I think it's laughable that Americans assume that our values (freedom of speech, religion, democracy) should be adopted by the entire world. I wish we would look in the mirror before assuming that we know what is best for everyone.

To me, the situation is much more nuanced than people realize, starting with the fact that HK was part of a unified China for for 2,000 years prior to being forcefully taken in battle by the British. Are we able to at least contemplate why furthering the division between China and Hong Kong might upset the people of mainland China and it's government? No one seems to want to look at the situation for a different perspective. I've been to China twice (LOVE IT), read as much as I can on the topic, talked to Chinese people in the US who were raised or recently lived in Hong Kong and Beijing (I work in a CPA firm that has lots of these folks) and I barely feel like I understand what is going on.

I posted earlier some data that indicated 70% of HK people were in favor of the One Country, Two Government system. I have a hard time believing that this has significantly changed due to the recent events. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
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