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Clayton or Collier?

Who Will Be Better?

  • Collier

  • Clayton

Results are only viewable after voting.
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Brunson

It's actually kind of the norm for smaller guards who are good in the NBA. A lot of them tend to be 4 year players.
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Correction: Brunson and VanVleet found their way to the starting PG position in the NBA not because they are small but because they are strong and hefty but still quick. Clayton does not seem to be built that way.

But, in general, getting drafted close to 20 at the age of 22 as a PG is just a proxy that after playing all this years of organized basketball the consensus of the NBA decision-makers is that you are unlikely to become a quality starter in this league. The GMs are often wrong evaluating 18/19 year olds but they are typically much more on the target looking at 22-yo prospects. Clayton can still prove them (and me!) wrong but the chances of that are what...10%? 20%?

The smart betting money would be on him being a career back up.
 
jazznik said:
Correction: Brunson and VanVleet found their way to the starting PG position in the NBA not because they are small but because they are strong and hefty but still quick. Clayton does not seem to be built that way.

But, in general, getting drafted close to 20 at the age of 22 as a PG is just a proxy that after playing all this years of organized basketball the consensus of the NBA decision-makers is that you are unlikely to become a quality starter in this league. The GMs are often wrong evaluating 18/19 year olds but they are typically much more on the target looking at 22-yo prospects. Clayton can still prove them (and me!) wrong but the chances of that are what...10%? 20%?

The smart betting money would be on him being a career back up.
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Clayton is heavier than Brunson actually. Clayton has a decently strong build.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Clayton is heavier than Brunson actually. Clayton has a decently strong build.
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Then he needs to find a way to use it. Brunson bumps into people and dislodges them. While I saw relatively little of tape on Clayton I don't remember seeing him doing it. Clayton tends to run away/fake/screen defenders to create space instead of going into their body.

Walter seems to need a lot of empty space for his shots and the NBA defenders are unlikely to give it to him as readily as in college. It is actually Collier who plays more like Brunson on offense (minus his jump shot, of course).
 
jazznik said:
Then he needs to find a way to use it. Brunson bumps into people and dislodges them. While I saw relatively little of tape on Clayton I don't remember seeing him doing it. Clayton tends to run away/fake/screen defenders to create space instead of going into their body.

Walter seems to need a lot of empty space for his shots and the NBA defenders are unlikely to give it to him as readily as in college. It is actually Collier who plays more like Brunson on offense (minus his jump shot, of course).
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Brunson is also 28 and already has his "man strength." Walt is an old-man by draft standards but is still only 22. He'll naturally get stronger as he reaches peak maturity. And it's not like Brunson set the world on fire in years 1 and 2. It definitely took him time.
 
Collier is fortunate because he’s in the perfect situation to “shine”. I think he has some talent, but he can really only fit into a team where he dominates the ball. I think Clayton has a better career 9 times out of 10.
 
bigmike said:
Brunson is also 28 and already has his "man strength." Walt is an old-man by draft standards but is still only 22. He'll naturally get stronger as he reaches peak maturity.
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Then Collier will be our version of Shaq by the age of 28? Collier will push Kessler to being his back up due to his strength and better FT% and 3PT%.
 
jazznik said:
Then he needs to find a way to use it. Brunson bumps into people and dislodges them. While I saw relatively little of tape on Clayton I don't remember seeing him doing it. Clayton tends to run away/fake/screen defenders to create space instead of going into their body.

Walter seems to need a lot of empty space for his shots and the NBA defenders are unlikely to give it to him as readily as in college. It is actually Collier who plays more like Brunson on offense (minus his jump shot, of course).
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No, Clayton is defiintely more Brunson coded than Collier and it's not really close. The nifty footwork finish in the paint he had his last game? Extremely Brunson coded.

Collier is a beefy less bouncy John Wall. I dont think I've ever seen him play off 2 feet effectively because his ability to make a jump shot from anywhere on the court is nil.

I know Collier had some post ability in college, but he has to get to the rim to finish effectively off those actions and that isnt how it typically works in the NBA for small guards. You need to be able to bump and have the ability to hit fadeaways or the defense isnt going to respect you enough for you to get to the rim off those moves.
 
To me Walt flashes a little Brunson, Steph, and Lillard (these aren't "comps," don't freak out on me).

I don't think he uses his strength as well as Brunson. And If I recall he's not as long (maybe nowhere near as long) as Dame. But his footwork, ability to get to his spots, and ability to create space to get his shot off is pretty special. And he's so good off the ball, running off screens, etc.

Obviously he slipped to #18 for a reason but I think that move up was pretty inspired. Pat Riley, Spo and and the Warriors really wanting this kid tells me enough.
 
Collier obviously has no chance of playing real NBA minutes unless he becomes a much better shooter (and he's not showing any progress), but Clayton needs to actually show NBA PG skills to be an NBA PG.

The most likely outcomes are for Collier to be a 10th or 11th man and Clayton to be a 6th man.
 
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