Collin Sexton SZN

[HermanG]

As far as I know Raptors fans love FVV.

Suns can't afford FVV so we aren't competing with the Suns for any free agents that cost more than a nickel.

Suns part I agree, albeit the appeal of playing in a championship contender with KD shouldnt be underestimated. But they should not have means to sign anyone. It was just reported today that they might go after him.

FVV is the #1 hate target in Raptors realgm at least. Dunno if that represents some radical wing of the fanbase though.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Suns part I agree, albeit the appeal of playing in a championship contender with KD shouldnt be underestimated. But they should not have means to sign anyone. It was just reported today that they might go after him.

FVV is the #1 hate target in Raptors realgm at least. Dunno if that represents some radical wing of the fanbase though.

Oh wow, didn't realize you were using the all encompassing metric of the real GM board. Forgive me.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I lean towards agreeing with you. Wouldn't be upset at it though. I think generally we want to use the space to sign talent where we can and figure it out later. The back end of his deal would be soft with the rising cap. I'm kind of cap illiterate though, so I really don't know who the Jazz would be competing with to sign him, obviously the Raptors, but I don't know who else has money out there and needs a PG.

FVV at least fits a need more than Kuzma (just to compare another gettable high priced UFA) does. He's also an advanced stats darling on an underachieving team which might suggest he can do a lot better on a better team construct.

I get the appeal... and there is a case to be made that he might suffer more than anyone because of their lack of shooting and any semblance of a real offense.

If they made the contract decline it would be more palatable and if the numbers came in more like 4/100M then fine. I think if they can find a pgotf that you may not want a guy making that much for that long in front of them.

The draft is full of guys I think would fit well with Sexton... so I'd see how the draft plays out first. Wallace/Black are the obvious fits... but in the end of the first Colby Jones and JHS could be guys that are bigger combo/pgs that would work. Amen is another but I doubt we land top 4.

If you landed like George or NSJ then you may want to go ahead and move Collin and find a true pg that is already developed.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One type of deal I'd consider... if Washington falls in the 10-14 range see if you can trade the Minny pick (say its 18ish) and a Cavs pick in 2025 for their pick and Delon Wright or Monte Morris. Gives them some wiggle room for all the FAs they need to sign and an asset to move in another deal. After Johnny Davis I can't see them all that excited about drafting in the late lotto.

 

[HermanG]

Oh wow, didn't realize you were using the all encompassing metric of the real GM board. Forgive me.

What is your proof of Raptor fans love for FVV except your firm belief in your own divine powers to know everything there is?

Life spoiler:
When you come of age, you will realize you have no superpowers.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What is your proof of Raptor fans love for FVV except your firm belief in your own divine powers to know everything there is?

Life spoiler:
When you come of age, you will realize you have no superpowers.

He won a ring with them...

 

[KqWIN]

I don't know what started this FVV conversation, don't care to look it up. One thing I know for sure....Raptor fans LOATHE FVV. I can't exactly why but they are completely done with him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also you do have to keep Lauri happy to an extent.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Raptors fans say the negatives with FVV are he has lost a step defensively and shoots them out of games at times.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I would pass on FVV. Undersized and FG% is horrendous. His TS% isn’t much better either.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Looked at a few different actions on nba.com... was surprised to see how high Sexton is scoring in iso and as a pick and roll ball handler. In addition to playing him at the pg we need to have him running more pick and roll actions these last 20 or so games. Get a bigger sample. JC needs to move a bit more off ball to explore what we have here. He was like high 90s and 80-ish percentile on most offensive actions.

It isn't enough just to play the young guys these next 20 games or so... we must let them explore the room.

 

[Bodhi]

Looked at a few different actions on nba.com... was surprised to see how high Sexton is scoring in iso and as a pick and roll ball handler. In addition to playing him at the pg we need to have him running more pick and roll actions these last 20 or so games. Get a bigger sample. JC needs to move a bit more off ball to explore what we have here. He was like high 90s and 80-ish percentile on most offensive actions.

It isn't enough just to play the young guys these next 20 games or so... we must let them explore the room.

Or, hear me out, alternative option: let JC pound it into the ground for 21 secs before he shoots?

 

[KqWIN]

Here is a thread talking about FVV's good games. I will admit, Toronto Raptor fans are a different species. If it turned out that these weren't real online fans and instead some kind of AI generated prequel to a horror film I would not be surprised. They are not rationale about anything. But here it is anyways. Look at the comments about FVV:


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/110senu/we_are_the_only_fanbase_that_criticizes_the_pg/


I'm undecided about making a run at FVV in FA. He will probably be looking for 4/$120, but I think he ends up with a 3/$100 type deal. Maybe a 4th year but with less guaranteed. If the Jazz have any chance at getting him, it would be by breaking the bank and overpaying for him. That is a scary proposition given that he could fall off at any point being an undersized guard (if he hasn't already). Having said that, if the cost of getting a $20M per year player is actually paying $30M a year....is it still worth it? You have to ask yourself, what other moves could be made? Are we going to make a run at Grant Williams for $20M and pay a $15M player $20M instead? Are we going to use to get someone like Robinson, but also get a pick back with it? These are the questions that need to be asked. It's not as simple as overpaying/underpaying for a player.

I don't think FVV is nearly as bad as the Raptors fans make him out to be. I do believe they are using him as a scapegoat because they have favoritism towards other players on their team (quite obvious if you've read enough Raptor fan comments). He is an advanced stat monster and when I watch him play I can see why. He does a lot to help your team win, sort of like a younger version of Conley. Compared to Sexton, the will probably have similar base numbers (with Sexton being a much more efficient scorer) but my eyes agree with the numbers. I think you win a lot more with FVV than Sexton, and that's not a dig at Sexton but moreso a compliment to FVV. He would help this team a ton. If he's available for us to sign, I think you might just have to do it if there are no better options. I'm not sure there will be better options/uses for our cap space. I definitely wouldn't say FVV is Plan A, however. I think it's just as reasonable to stick with Sexton if you can find a positive use for the cap space elsewhere.

I think Sexton is good enough that we can roll him out at starting PG and be just fine. We're not going to win the championship next year, and Sexton is good enough to get us into the playoffs as long as the supporting pieces are reasonable. He's not limiting us until we're thinking about really winning, and he might develop into that level of player if you give him the chance to continue developing. If we're not trying to make a splash of any kind next year, might as well give him some more time. His stock will only go up, and his contract is looking more and more favorable as time goes on.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here is a thread talking about FVV's good games. I will admit, Toronto Raptor fans are a different species. If it turned out that these weren't real online fans and instead some kind of AI generated prequel to a horror film I would not be surprised. They are not rationale about anything. But here it is anyways. Look at the comments about FVV:


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/110senu/we_are_the_only_fanbase_that_criticizes_the_pg/


I'm undecided about making a run at FVV in FA. He will probably be looking for 4/$120, but I think he ends up with a 3/$100 type deal. Maybe a 4th year but with less guaranteed. If the Jazz have any chance at getting him, it would be by breaking the bank and overpaying for him. That is a scary proposition given that he could fall off at any point being an undersized guard (if he hasn't already). Having said that, if the cost of getting a $20M per year player is actually paying $30M a year....is it still worth it? You have to ask yourself, what other moves could be made? Are we going to make a run at Grant Williams for $20M and pay a $15M player $20M instead? Are we going to use to get someone like Robinson, but also get a pick back with it? These are the questions that need to be asked. It's not as simple as overpaying/underpaying for a player.

I don't think FVV is nearly as bad as the Raptors fans make him out to be. I do believe they are using him as a scapegoat because they have favoritism towards other players on their team (quite obvious if you've read enough Raptor fan comments). He is an advanced stat monster and when I watch him play I can see why. He does a lot to help your team win, sort of like a younger version of Conley. Compared to Sexton, the will probably have similar base numbers (with Sexton being a much more efficient scorer) but my eyes agree with the numbers. I think you win a lot more with FVV than Sexton, and that's not a dig at Sexton but moreso a compliment to FVV. He would help this team a ton. If he's available for us to sign, I think you might just have to do it if there are no better options. I'm not sure there will be better options/uses for our cap space. I definitely wouldn't say FVV is Plan A, however. I think it's just as reasonable to stick with Sexton if you can find a positive use for the cap space elsewhere.

I think Sexton is good enough that we can roll him out at starting PG and be just fine. We're not going to win the championship next year, and Sexton is good enough to get us into the playoffs as long as the supporting pieces are reasonable. He's not limiting us until we're thinking about really winning, and he might develop into that level of player if you give him the chance to continue developing. If we're not trying to make a splash of any kind next year, might as well give him some more time. His stock will only go up, and his contract is looking more and more favorable as time goes on.

FVV just has almost no chance to outplay his next deal. He's a guy you sign if your "window" is the next two years as he likely ages poorly. I'd rather overpay for a Grant Williams (or Cam Johnson or Gary Trent) that you know will at least be good in 3-4 years. If you end up having to use space to take a ****** contract and get compensated that way I would rather go that route too.

I also think we could get some playmaking/passing by signing a guy like Austin Reeves to play the 2 or Josh Hart as a forward. I think you can find a way to add more ball movers and let Sexton cook a little bit more (like they do with JC) and it might be a better temporary solution until a younger player develops or a trade materializes... like if Dejounte Murray became available.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Sexton's biggest problem is that he just makes too many mistakes. Think it's a good thing Hardy was hard on him to start the year off. Now we get to see if it paid off a bit.

It's also depressing how hard he tries defensively just to be a mediocre defender at best. Just doesn't do a good job reading plays. Gets way less steals than you'd expect from a guard with his speed and decent length. Tries to play up on guys but isn't truly disruptive and doesn't really strike fear in anyone trying to dribble

He was actually pretty solid on Brunson

 

[Jingled]

I have a hard time seeing us using a ton of our cap space on FVV. We keep hearing how the Jazz are going for positional size at every position...doesn't make a lot of sense to spend $30 million or more a season on a 6'1 point guard, especially when we already have one of those on the roster. He also turns 29 this year, so he may not fit the timeline.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Conley has rubbed off on too many of our players. Sexton threw some really good lobs. I am not sure we lose as much as we are expecting. Sexton, THT played well and so did Gay. Olynyk moved the ball. That could be enough to continue at the same level of play for a while. The defense is a little weaker but surprisingly Kessler is playing stronger in that area. They all have too much confidence and they could end up in the playoffs. Super shocking...

If Gay would just not shoot threes, I’d think he was a highly effective player

 

[Bodhi]

I have a hard time seeing us using a ton of our cap space on FVV. We keep hearing how the Jazz are going for positional size at every position...doesn't make a lot of sense to spend $30 million or more a season on a 6'1 point guard, especially when we already have one of those on the roster. He also turns 29 this year, so he may not fit the timeline.

Yeah this aint happening

 

[KqWIN]

FVV just has almost no chance to outplay his next deal. He's a guy you sign if your "window" is the next two years as he likely ages poorly. I'd rather overpay for a Grant Williams (or Cam Johnson or Gary Trent) that you know will at least be good in 3-4 years. If you end up having to use space to take a ****** contract and get compensated that way I would rather go that route too.

I also think we could get some playmaking/passing by signing a guy like Austin Reeves to play the 2 or Josh Hart as a forward. I think you can find a way to add more ball movers and let Sexton cook a little bit more (like they do with JC) and it might be a better temporary solution until a younger player develops or a trade materializes... like if Dejounte Murray became available.

Eh...I don't know about no chance. I think if he plays at the level he's been at he's probably going to be worth it. And it get backs to what I was saying. If you're overpaying someone by $5M a year...is that so much that you don't give him the deal? Have to be honest and think about other options....maybe that option is to overpay a different guy. I just don't think it's enough to say, "this guy will be overpaid and that's why we shouldn't sign him". It's not quite that simple. Most of the options for using our cap space involve overpaying for someone one way or another.

I tell you what, I think FVV's next contract will be better than Clarkson's next contract. FVV will get paid more, but he is a much better player and you're paying for years 29-31/32 instead of 31-33/4.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I have a hard time seeing us using a ton of our cap space on FVV. We keep hearing how the Jazz are going for positional size at every position...doesn't make a lot of sense to spend $30 million or more a season on a 6'1 point guard, especially when we already have one of those on the roster. He also turns 29 this year, so he may not fit the timeline.

Agreed in the size part, completely disagree on the timeline part