Collin Sexton SZN

[Elizah Huge]

It's much more likely that his efficiency goes down as his usage (which is already high IMO) goes up. They tend to correlate inversely in the NBA in the long run.

I doubt Collin can keep up even his current level of efficiency. He never has before.

Keep doubting him. That’s what he uses as fuel.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Keep doubting him. That’s what he uses as fuel.

So you;re saying me and TU are the reason Sexton is good now?

 

[HermanG]

The more interesting question with SExton to me is how he can perform in the clutch.

The Jazz are heavily Clarkson dependent in that department. Sexton;s game will probably have issues translating

Yeah he doesnt have the stepback / pullup / midrange clutch arsenal that Clarkson has.

I think the important question is about decission making: will he force his own shots or get his team the best shots. If its the former its likely drives to the rim, which can be hard to pull off once the opponent anticipates it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah he doesnt have the stepback / pullup / midrange clutch arsenal that Clarkson has.

I think the important question is about decission making: will he force his own shots or get his team the best shots. If its the former its likely drives to the rim, which can be hard to pull off once the opponent anticipates it.

Yeah, and credit to Sexton, his push shot in the paint is filthy and seems to go in over anyone, but in the clutch it's going to be more pressure, more D, better contest, etc and he will have to be able to make the pass.

And yeah, the complete absence of a step-back is a negative. It's nice for the other minutes because he's getting all high % shots for the most part, but his off the dribble jumper has been horrendous this year.

 

[Agent#00]

I think the best way to utilize sexton is to inserts him with 6 minutes to go in the 4th. Hardy did this during the streak. That way he can use his speed vs tired defense. He clock in just 25 minutes iirc. Vs rockets he played 40 minutes, missed his last 5 shots. I blame fatigue.

 

[KqWIN]

I think there may be some pivot moves where you swap out Kessler and Sexton... and if there are BIG moves you can do that conflict with those guys that's okay. I think all the medium term moves of substance should weigh those two until further notice I guess. No more acquiring John Collins or THT rehab projects that will conflict I guess. If you get a chance for a bigger playmaker you probably do it whether you have Collin or not as they fit so many iterations.

I guess I'm saying those guys are the non-lauri parts of this core I plan around medium term. If you are moving them it better be for an upgrade or a premium young asset. Like at draft time if you target a prospect in the top 10 you love then go on ahead. Getting some future draft picks with upside is nice but that's not what I think we should be doing with those two.

With Walker I think you should start him and play him around 30 minutes a night. He needs more time with Lauri imo. If he isn't THE GUY that is okay but Lauri is likely to need a rim protecting center out there, so Walker's replacement or upgrade likely looks more like Walker than John Collins.

The most bankable things we have going for us are Lauri's offense, Walker's rim protection, and Collin's efficient volume scoring and right now you plan around that until you find something more bankable.

This is where you get into the gray area. Part of the reason why I wouldn't consider Kessler and Sexton is because they are so inflexible. If you consider them too heavily in your team building, you have to ask the question..."who can we even get?". Like for Sexton, I think it would be extremely difficult to have a strong enough defense unless his partner in the back court is a great defender, who guards both positions, and also can play with and without the ball. If we can't even take a flier on someone because they don't fit the description, it will be hard to acquire anyone. In theory, a THT who matured his game is pretty similar to Dunn (or a similar type). Really, the THT problem is an issue with his ability and not his fit with Sexton. I would argue the same thing for Collins. The reason why Collins was in the dumps was because of his early season play with and without Kessler. In hindsight, I also think it was just silly to acquire Collins if we were planning on being the least PnR heavy team in the league.

I believe in putting players in the position to succeed, but I also feel like we're not even close to a position where we should be very picky about who we put around Sexton and Kessler. If those were Mitchell and Gobert level, who could lead us to 50 wins and a high level offense+defense just by being on the team it would be one thing. I could not shut up about trying to put a better fitting roster around those two, and it's because I believed they were that good. Sexton and Kessler are good players, but not close to that level. I put Sexton and Kessler in some consideration, but I'm much more concerned about the overall talent of the squad and making as many positive asset moves as possible. If you think playing with Sexton or Kessler will cause a positive move to become negative (let's just say you believe that's the deal with Collins), I think it's fine to shy away from that kind of move. But I'm certainly not limiting moves to ensure that it works perfectly with Sexton and Kessler as core pieces of that lineup.

Like I saw a lot of people saying we should trade for this or that player because of his fit with Sexton. And maybe in our endgame state, that fit is not ideal. But I feel like we're getting ahead of ourselves and we're too far away from having a great team to be too picky about acquiring talent.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think there may be some pivot moves where you swap out Kessler and Sexton... and if there are BIG moves you can do that conflict with those guys that's okay. I think all the medium term moves of substance should weigh those two until further notice I guess. No more acquiring John Collins or THT rehab projects that will conflict I guess. If you get a chance for a bigger playmaker you probably do it whether you have Collin or not as they fit so many iterations.

I guess I'm saying those guys are the non-lauri parts of this core I plan around medium term. If you are moving them it better be for an upgrade or a premium young asset. Like at draft time if you target a prospect in the top 10 you love then go on ahead. Getting some future draft picks with upside is nice but that's not what I think we should be doing with those two.

With Walker I think you should start him and play him around 30 minutes a night. He needs more time with Lauri imo. If he isn't THE GUY that is okay but Lauri is likely to need a rim protecting center out there, so Walker's replacement or upgrade likely looks more like Walker than John Collins.

The most bankable things we have going for us are Lauri's offense, Walker's rim protection, and Collin's efficient volume scoring and right now you plan around that until you find something more bankable.

The issue with Walker is that he is prone to confidence loss. If you just play him 30 MPG no matter what he is going to get rocked by opposing teams centers and he's going to sulk.

I think you stick with Walker the bench player and hope he really takes a physical leap in the off-season and you can start him next year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is where you get into the gray area. Part of the reason why I wouldn't consider Kessler and Sexton is because they are so inflexible. If you consider them too heavily in your team building, you have to ask the question..."who can we even get?". Like for Sexton, I think it would be extremely difficult to have a strong enough defense unless his partner in the back court is a great defender, who guards both positions, and also can play with and without the ball. If we can't even take a flier on someone because they don't fit the description, it will be hard to acquire anyone. In theory, a THT who matured his game is pretty similar to Dunn (or a similar type). Really, the THT problem is an issue with his ability and not his fit with Sexton. I would argue the same thing for Collins. The reason why Collins was in the dumps was because of his early season play with and without Kessler. In hindsight, I also think it was just silly to acquire Collins if we were planning on being the least PnR heavy team in the league.

I believe in putting players in the position to succeed, but I also feel like we're not even close to a position where we should be very picky about who we put around Sexton and Kessler. If those were Mitchell and Gobert level, who could lead us to 50 wins and a high level offense+defense just by being on the team it would be one thing. I could not shut up about trying to put a better fitting roster around those two, and it's because I believed they were that good. Sexton and Kessler are good players, but not close to that level. I put Sexton and Kessler in some consideration, but I'm much more concerned about the overall talent of the squad and making as many positive asset moves as possible. If you think playing with Sexton or Kessler will cause a positive move to become negative (let's just say you believe that's the deal with Collins), I think it's fine to shy away from that kind of move. But I'm certainly not limiting moves to ensure that it works perfectly with Sexton and Kessler as core pieces of that lineup.

Like I saw a lot of people saying we should trade for this or that player because of his fit with Sexton. And maybe in our endgame state, that fit is not ideal. But I feel like we're getting ahead of ourselves and we're too far away from having a great team to be too picky about acquiring talent.

My thoughts might be a bit of a nothing burger in that most of the medium sized moves we'd make would be for players that fit with Collin/Walker - if the idea is to get better now - would also be players that fit with Keyonte and others. Most of the long term moves like drafting and acquiring of blue chip prospects I would make regardless of Walker and Sexton and just acquire the best talent.

Like if we traded for Avdija it works with the current group and likely with any future groups if we reconfigure. That would be a medium/biggish move imo.

Its more like the Tyus Jones, Zach Lavine (that one is big I realize), or like a Nic Claxton... aren't moves I'd do with the current setup. If they are dirt cheap you can reconsider. I'd say Dlo falls into this but if we do that one its for the other parts of the deal and Dlo is fine if you are getting something. Its really the Collins type move. I just think a move that is centered around the next 2-3 years needs to factor fit with those guys a bit more than John did.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The issue with Walker is that he is prone to confidence loss. If you just play him 30 MPG no matter what he is going to get rocked by opposing teams centers and he's going to sulk.

I think you stick with Walker the bench player and hope he really takes a physical leap in the off-season and you can start him next year.

I do think there is a little bit of Walker skepticism with DA. Chasing Porzingis and trading for Collins kinda makes me think he's not convinced he's a 30 minute a night guy.

I just think long term whether its Walker or Sarr or whoever you have at center... they likely need to be a rim protector to have a functional defense for most of the game... and they likely aren't shooting 3s. I think the confidence issues will go away with time.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I do think there is a little bit of Walker skepticism with DA. Chasing Porzingis and trading for Collins kinda makes me think he's not convinced he's a 30 minute a night guy.

I just think long term whether its Walker or Sarr or whoever you have at center... they likely need to be a rim protector to have a functional defense for most of the game... and they likely aren't shooting 3s. I think the confidence issues will go away with time.

The thing with Walker is for him not to be a negative on offense you need a point god type of PNR maestro. Right now the team isnt like that and basically everyone on the roster is more suited towards 5 out, less PNR heavy offense.

For now I'm 100% keeping him. Ideally he's just a super bench guy who can play starter minutes when the matchup dictates it. Hopefully he isnt commanding Rudy type money and is more like Zubac type money.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess its just part of my "what's the plan here?" confusion. If we moved Collin for a future first I'd think we are still pretty aimless. If we moved Collin in the offseason for a top 10 pick for a specific guy we targeted... I'd feel better about it. I think we have stumbled on to a winning formula to build on and he's a big part of it... so his trade value if moved should reflect that. JC, KO, etc. I think are pieces you could flip for future assets and not disrupt the winning formula too much.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think we should be building around Lauri and Sexton. That includes thinking about players potential fit with both of them.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I guess it’s just part of my "what's the plan here?" confusion. If we moved Collin for a future first I'd think we are still pretty aimless. If we moved Collin in the offseason for a top 10 pick for a specific guy we targeted... I'd feel better about it. I think we have stumbled on to a winning formula to build on and he's a big part of it... so his trade value if moved should reflect that. JC, KO, etc. I think are pieces you could flip for future assets and not disrupt the winning formula too much.

I highly doubt we trade him and if we do it will be for more than just one first.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think we should be building around Lauri and Sexton. That includes thinking about players potential fit with both of them.

No way I'm purposefully building around Sexton, like making intentional move that I wouldnt make otherwise just to fit Sexton.

You get the best players you can and if Sexton is the reason it doesnt fit, you move him to the bench or you move him to a new team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I dont really think Sexton is a hyper flawed player anymore though, so I dont think building with him will be too tough.

 

[KqWIN]

My thoughts might be a bit of a nothing burger in that most of the medium sized moves we'd make would be for players that fit with Collin/Walker - if the idea is to get better now - would also be players that fit with Keyonte and others. Most of the long term moves like drafting and acquiring of blue chip prospects I would make regardless of Walker and Sexton and just acquire the best talent.

Like if we traded for Avdija it works with the current group and likely with any future groups if we reconfigure. That would be a medium/biggish move imo.

Its more like the Tyus Jones, Zach Lavine (that one is big I realize), or like a Nic Claxton... aren't moves I'd do with the current setup. If they are dirt cheap you can reconsider. I'd say Dlo falls into this but if we do that one its for the other parts of the deal and Dlo is fine if you are getting something. Its really the Collins type move. I just think a move that is centered around the next 2-3 years needs to factor fit with those guys a bit more than John did.

I still feel like moves listed below (at least some of them) are moves as long as we are confident in the value it took to get them. I wouldn't be breaking the bank for any of those guys, but if we got them for a reasonable price I wouldn't mind even knowing that they are probably not amazing long term fits with Kessler and or Sexton. Sexton and Kessler just aren't good enough (yet) for me to feel firm that they are the long term plan on their own. Like there's a universe where Lavine is actually the better way to go because we don't have to have such a specific player next to him and we end up trading Sexton. It's fine to have both on your way up.

I also think Lavine is about as good as it gets as far as an offensive fit next to Sexton as you can get....though I definitely don't recommend going full IND and ignoring the defensive side of the ball. Then you a guy like Tyus where he's awesome next to Lauri and Kessler, but too small next to Sexton. Like I said, it's a sliding scale...I'm just think we are getting ahead of ourselves,

 

[KqWIN]

I dont really think Sexton is a hyper flawed player anymore though, so I dont think building with him will be too tough.

I think he's kind of tough to build around with his size. You need a very specific player next to him and those are hard to find. However, if he keeps improving his playmaking and shooting it makes it much easier. Defensively....I just don't think he can ever be good though.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think he's kind of tough to build around with his size. You need a very specific player next to him and those are hard to find. However, if he keeps improving his playmaking and shooting it makes it much easier. Defensively....I just don't think he can ever be good though.

Crazy thing is he is listed at 6 foot 3. No ****ing way he is that tall

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

 

[Elizah Huge]

No way I'm purposefully building around Sexton, like making intentional move that I wouldnt make otherwise just to fit Sexton.

You get the best players you can and if Sexton is the reason it doesnt fit, you move him to the bench or you move him to a new team.

The type of player we’d have to acquire to replace Sexton doesn’t seem plausible at the moment. He wouldn’t be hard to build with so my point still stands.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The type of player we’d have to acquire to replace Sexton doesn’t seem plausible at the moment. He wouldn’t be hard to build with so my point still stands.

I mean not really. There's a difference between making moves through the lens of "Does this maximize or fit with Sexton" and just making good moves.

If the Jazz can get a 6'3 PG who is more traditional (shoots off the dribble, can be a top PNR player, etc) and he's of similiar quality to Sexton (ie, Darius Garland type) then yeah, you move on from Sexton. I would assume the Jazz hope Keyonte is that as they have prioritized fast-tracking his development with minutes.