What's new

Collin Sexton traded to Charlotte Hornets for Jusuf Nurkic

Why not just buyout Sexton?
I think I've come to the conclusion that they just really like Nurkic. No other explanation sounds reasonable to me. In essence, with this trade instead of Sexton buy out they told us that they value having Nurkic at his salary more than having a second round pick.
 
I think I've come to the conclusion that they just really like Nurkic. No other explanation sounds reasonable to me. In essence, with this trade instead of Sexton buy out they told us that they value having Nurkic at his salary more than having a second round pick.
And in the end a 2nd rounder is probably worth it for Nurkic.
 
Fairly sure Klutch is the mastermind here especially when you consider both Nurk and Sexton are Klutch clients. They likely believe Charlotte is a better spot for Sexton heading into a contract year. Just my guess though.

Hopefully now they find a spot for Clarkson even if it just means a buyout/cap savings for the Jazz.
 
Yes, tanking is extremely overrated. But what exactly would be your plan to move forward? It really doesn't say much to say that tanking is unlikely to work unless you offer a solution that is better. "I'm tired of this" isn't exactly an argument that other paths are more effective.
I'm not a GM. I don't get paid to make those decisions, nor do I posses a special knowledge or skill set that makes me ideally suited to make them. I'm only observing that the tanking discourse here (and elsewhere in the NBA mediascape) has reached absurd levels of irrational confidence in tanking as a strategy for developing championship caliber NBA teams capable of sustained deep playoff runs.

The tanking discourse across the league is one huge exercise in uncritical, unreflective group think. When, as I heard in a recent NBA podcast, NBA "experts" declare that Sacramento needs to tear it down, this after 1 playoff appearance (first round) exit in the last 19 years, or as recently suggested here that Charlotte should be tanking, even thought it's made three playoff appearances in the last 21 years (all first round exits), this is a clear indication that the tanking discourse has reached peak absurdity.

I would be less likely to push back so relentlessly if I observed a more moderated discourse surrounding tanking that took due account of its costs, risks, and uncertain returns on investment. Instead, I tend to see here and across the media landscape an unrelenting tanking drumbeat that evinces little evidence that tanking advocates consider such things coupled with an irrational and unfounded confidence that what the Jazz are trying to do actually works, based on incredibly scant evidence. (I don't consider OKC a model, unless the Jazz can replicate trading for a future MVP.)

Also, for those tempted, please spare me the "if you don't have a solution, you don't have a right to complain" canard. This unreasonable standard would prohibit us from expressing an opinion on virtually anything outside our narrow realm of expertise. It's primary purpose is to foreclose discourse and opinions that the user doesn't like.

As to what the Jazz should do, my hope the Jazz FO has an actual plan on to pivot from trying to lose to trying to win that includes clear metrics and timelines and that the timeline is sooner rather than later. I assume this entails combining draft success (albeit highly uncertain) with strategic trades, roster development, and the retention of competent talent. If the plan is to denude the roster of competent talent while continuing to speculate in the draft lottery (which seems to be the preferred strategy here), I worry that we're still 3-5 years out from competition, at which point the likelihood of generating a positive return on the losing investment diminishes significantly.
 
Fairly sure Klutch is the mastermind here especially when you consider both Nurk and Sexton are Klutch clients. They likely believe Charlotte is a better spot for Sexton heading into a contract year. Just my guess though.

Hopefully now they find a spot for Clarkson even if it just means a buyout/cap savings for the Jazz.
This is a solid theory as well.
 
I'm not a GM. I don't get paid to make those decisions, nor do I posses a special knowledge or skill set that makes me ideally suited to make them. I'm only observing that the tanking discourse here (and elsewhere in the NBA mediascape) has reached absurd levels of irrational confidence in tanking as a strategy for developing championship caliber NBA teams capable of sustained deep playoff runs.

The tanking discourse across the league is one huge exercise in uncritical, unreflective group think. When, as I heard in a recent NBA podcast, NBA "experts" declare that Sacramento needs to tear it down, this after 1 playoff appearance (first round) exit in the last 19 years, or as recently suggested here that Charlotte should be tanking, even thought it's made three playoff appearances in the last 21 years (all first round exits), this is a clear indication that the tanking discourse has reached peak absurdity.

I would be less likely to push back so relentlessly if I observed a more moderated discourse surrounding tanking that took due account of its costs, risks, and uncertain returns on investment. Instead, I tend to see here and across the media landscape an unrelenting tanking drumbeat that evinces little evidence that tanking advocates consider such things coupled with an irrational and unfounded confidence that what the Jazz are trying to do actually works, based on incredibly scant evidence. (I don't consider OKC a model, unless the Jazz can replicate trading for a future MVP.)

Also, for those tempted, please spare me the "if you don't have a solution, you don't have a right to complain" canard. This unreasonable standard would prohibit us from expressing an opinion on virtually anything outside our narrow realm of expertise. It's primary purpose is to foreclose discourse and opinions that the user doesn't like.

As to what the Jazz should do, my hope the Jazz FO has an actual plan on to pivot from trying to lose to trying to win that includes clear metrics and timelines and that the timeline is sooner rather than later. I assume this entails combining draft success (albeit highly uncertain) with strategic trades, roster development, and the retention of competent talent. If the plan is to denude the roster of competent talent while continuing to speculate in the draft lottery (which seems to be the preferred strategy here), I worry that we're still 3-5 years out from competition, at which point the likelihood of generating a positive return on the losing investment diminishes significantly.

I actually 100% agree with your initial post I replied to, and I'd add onto that by saying that many fans enjoy the low stress environment of tanking. A lot of fans were incredibly unhappy during the end years of Don+Rudy and that's because there were real expectations to win. There was a lot on the line and that created a lot of stress. The most unhappy teams are the ones who have expectations and fail to meet them. It's why so many coaches of the year get fired. They set a high expectation and it's difficult to uphold it. When you're tanking, you either win or you win. The most stress you'll get is when you win a game you wanted to lose. I think this is comfortable situation for many whether they will admit it or not.

But I made my post because I also 100% agree with tanking in this moment. Tanking is not nearly as effective as people make it out to me, but the other options besides tanking are horrible right now. I've landed on the conclusion that tanking is horrible and not a great strategy but it is still better than the other options at this moment. So I don't think it's fair to dismiss everyone that wants to tank as someone who thinks tanking is a great strategy or someone who just loves gambling. It's not taking the high road to simply say that tanking is bad. You claim to be seeking this higher level of discourse without wanting to engage in it.

I don't think it's an unreasonable standard to consider other alternatives because many have and we talk about all day everyday around here. If you're unwilling to offer a solution, that's fine, but at that point it's just a complaint and not a real discussion about whether tanking is a positive direction or not.
 
I actually 100% agree with your initial post I replied to, and I'd add onto that by saying that many fans enjoy the low stress environment of tanking. A lot of fans were incredibly unhappy during the end years of Don+Rudy and that's because there were real expectations to win. There was a lot on the line and that created a lot of stress. The most unhappy teams are the ones who have expectations and fail to meet them. It's why so many coaches of the year get fired. They set a high expectation and it's difficult to uphold it. When you're tanking, you either win or you win. The most stress you'll get is when you win a game you wanted to lose. I think this is comfortable situation for many whether they will admit it or not.

But I made my post because I also 100% agree with tanking in this moment. Tanking is not nearly as effective as people make it out to me, but the other options besides tanking are horrible right now. I've landed on the conclusion that tanking is horrible and not a great strategy but it is still better than the other options at this moment. So I don't think it's fair to dismiss everyone that wants to tank as someone who thinks tanking is a great strategy or someone who just loves gambling. It's not taking the high road to simply say that tanking is bad.

I don't think it's an unreasonable standard to consider other alternatives because many have and we talk about all day everyday around here. If you're unwilling to offer a solution, that's fine, but at that point it's just a complaint and not a real discussion about whether tanking is a positive direction or not.
one of your all time best posts. i agree with everything you said here, but your first paragraph in particular. i kinda hate to admit it, but it describes me to a T. i get the added bonus that i really like watching young prospects get a lot of playing time and shots.

iow, it's easy for me - either be a legit contender, on your way up (young guys improving, win/loss record improving year to year, going deeper and deeper in the playoffs each year, etc), or tank. and I simply don't mind the last option at all because, as you said, it's low to zero stress, i get to watch prospects play, and along with the low stress, you get to have hope for the future.
 
Here are the reasons (I'm not saying they are good reasons) to make the trade vs just cutting Sexton:

- Because Sexton wouldn't agree to a buyout
- Because you think you can flip Nurkic at the deadline
- Because you want to help make Charlotte better (less tanking competition)

I'm pretty sure every deal we've done where we received a 2nd was JZ and every trade where we've failed to pick up a 2nd or given them away for seemingly nothing is DA. I don't think DA cares about 2nds at all.
 
Here are the reasons (I'm not saying they are good reasons) to make the trade vs just cutting Sexton:

- Because Sexton wouldn't agree to a buyout
- Because you think you can flip Nurkic at the deadline
- Because you want to help make Charlotte better (less tanking competition)

I'm pretty sure every deal we've done where we received a 2nd was JZ and every trade where we've failed to pick up a 2nd or given them away for seemingly nothing is DA. I don't think DA cares about 2nds at all.
We got second(s) for Mills/Eubanks last year, right?
 
Back
Top