Convince Me

babe

Well-Known Member
Not true. The guest is misinformed or lying. The term “capitalist” was used many times by many authors (see David Ricardo for just one example) for many years before Marx. My guess is that Johnson’s guest is lying because a good faith argument on the various forms of capitalism is too hard and nuanced. Laissez-faire proponents (the so-called ”freedom capitalists”) set up Marxism or socialism as straw men because laissez-faire capitalism versus a modern mixed capitalist economy is a losing argument. Mixed economies are wildly popular and have been for a hundred years, from the very beginnings of FDR’s New Deal right up to the present day.
I'd go with the uninformed hypothesis here. Since posting the above, I looked him up online. I found him being interviewed by Alex Jones and elsewhere being outed as an "alt-right" activist. I like him. He's a good black advocate of change, just willing to take the extreme positions for the jive.

But, while I don't care to dispute your citations of earlier usages, I'll side with him to the extent that the term "Capitalist" has been hijacked politically by the agenda wonks for elitist governance. In the interview I listened to, which I got to hear twice, he clearly describes how it's been used politically. I'm certain he doesn't giveadamn whether the word was in a dictionary before the agenda wonks woke it up and made it front and center on the bogeyman parade of human evils.

He says that the political method uses it to vilify personal initiative and to promote social or government management. He's absolutely spot on.

and, oh, for the record..... I have watched my wife's Jane Austen movie collection, and right there, circa 1802, Jane Austen has fat gents using the word "capital" like it's the best thing ever, or at least since suspenders. So, technically, you are correct about the existence of the word, in social polite society, decades before Marx.

I get the drift you are a fan of mixed economic systems part socialist and part capitalist. I don't know much about you. Are you a Rio Tinto exec? In that crowd you'd have to stick pretty close to the positions I've seen you take. Should I buy stock in Rio Tinto?????

I always hated Kennecott, or whatever the hell it was being called. Bought up and worked into a cartelist operation by the Rockefellers, who sold to the Gugenheims who sold it and whoever the hell ever had it sold it on out and down to BP and the Queen, influential as hell in Utah. I knew some of the people. Owns the whole damn mountain. Not sure who owns who now, the Mormons own the Queen or the Queen owns the Mormons, which is it.

But kept Magna from going suburban or even being a real city. All kinds of people there. One of the best places for somebody like me, who won't fit in, really, anywhere.

I like mining, though. I favor the idea of a mine actually taking down the mountain and processing it for every resource that's there. And, now, Daybreak is a fine development.
 
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babe

Well-Known Member
Been busy with football season...miss me? I would like to state that many on here suffer from TDS. How they can defend Obama using the IRS to go after conservatives, let the justice department agencies spy on the Trump campaign and have a insurance policy in place to remove him if he was elected is unbelievable to me. Heck they even used foreign spies from multiple countries (Australia, Italy and England) to do what ours could not do by law to entrap those associated with the Trump campaign.

Keep hating Trump...I will love to rub it in if he gets re-elected. If he doesn't get re-elected I will not post on jazzfanz for a year due to my private bet with revolutionary 9 (a Mod), who told me he thought Hillary would be a better president than Trump. Did you know they wrote Hillary's exronaration months before they interviewed her, did not tape her interview and gave her aids amnesty? They even let her aids sit in on Hillary's interview.

Tell me truly how do you hate Trump so much while ignoring the bad the democrats and main stream media do?
While if I'm not getting confused, this is thread is about Thriller, I like your pluck bringing this in here. So you listen to Hannity I see. lol.

Just what America needs. A conservative bartender talkshow.

I hated him passionately when I started listening to him years ago.... but I'd let him scratch my back and call him bud today. I hated him because he promoted Romney and dissed Ron Paul. I thought he was such a statist, such a shill for the club. Levin makes me mad sometimes because he's such a stick in the mud, but he knows the swamp, and when he uses that stick to smack the swampcritters I cheer.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
I'm not big on capitalism. lol

babe, go **** yourself!

You're not very big on making any sense, so you should definitely be ignored.

did I tell you to go **** yourself yet? because you should definitely go **** yourself.
I've always wondered why we say go **** yourself instead of go masturbate.
stop making sense, bro. Doncha jus know people who tell you that you don't make any sense are always saying stuff like that. Emotional sorta. Not rational.

Potep Jesus, whatshisname... continued in his interview with Sonnie to discuss emotional versus logical forms of intelligence. For the record, one of the few affirmations I ever got from Game was when I jumped into a discussion with the observation that people believe what they love. Love is the most compelling argument we just can't argue with or argue against. It's not on the ratopmal axis of the human brain.

I guess when I listen to Sonnie or her guests, I'm trying to fill in what I've missed in life in my own neck of the woods. I am charmed to hear folks like her, urban streeters, preaching freedom and doing it with style.

I don't care to get all perfectly accurate about their terminology. I love their grit.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
It's a slow day when I start explaining JFC posters.

I think what Spazz means is he's actually thinking about becoming convinced of something, or maybe a thing or two. Just which thing, or in what respect, will take a while longer.
 

Jazz Spazz

Inconceivable
Staff member
I'm convinced...

Some posters hate.
Some posters are okay with that hate as long as it agrees with what they think.
Some posters use the same arguments to support their views that they despise when used by others with different views.
I should have not posted this in honor of DFav's cryptic social media patterns.
 

Zombie

Well-Known Member
The people who defend Sauron for using orcs are the ones I can't understand.
Ok, look Illuvatar granted the Valar the gift of subcreation. He had to know that they'd end up taking this gift as far as they could, see Aulë creating the Dwarves for example.

Now Morgoth was in a pickle here, he didn't have Aulë's craftsmanship (and his turn to evil meant he probably couldn't create the orcs out of thin air) so he had to make do with the tools he was given, namely the Avari.

Can we really blame Sauron for using his master's creation after Morgoth was defeated? What alternative did he have? I'm not sure corrupting men or dwarves would have been a better moral alternative than the hordes of orcs already present.

Anyway, the orcs needed something to do. Without Sauron they'd just be wandering around the mountains aimlessly. He gave them a higher purpose, gave their life meaning. It's almost heroic really.
 

Stoked

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
Ok, look Illuvatar granted the Valar the gift of subcreation. He had to know that they'd end up taking this gift as far as they could, see Aulë creating the Dwarves for example.

Now Morgoth was in a pickle here, he didn't have Aulë's craftsmanship (and his turn to evil meant he probably couldn't create the orcs out of thin air) so he had to make do with the tools he was given, namely the Avari.

Can we really blame Sauron for using his master's creation after Morgoth was defeated? What alternative did he have? I'm not sure corrupting men or dwarves would have been a better moral alternative than the hordes of orcs already present.

Anyway, the orcs needed something to do. Without Sauron they'd just be wandering around the mountains aimlessly. He gave them a higher purpose, gave their life meaning. It's almost heroic really.
I mean how many lives across the races did he spare by exercising his control over the Trolls, Goblins, Orcs and other similar beings? By keeping them mostly in Mordor. By only indulging their need to destroy sparingly?

10,000? 20,000? 40,000, 100,000? 200,000?

He should probably be given the Nobel Peace prize tbh.
 

Stoked

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
It's a slow day when I start explaining JFC posters.

I think what Spazz means is he's actually thinking about becoming convinced of something, or maybe a thing or two. Just which thing, or in what respect, will take a while longer.
I’ll let others speak for themselves.
 

Eenie-Meenie

Well-Known Member
Been busy with football season...miss me? I would like to state that many on here suffer from TDS. How they can defend Obama using the IRS to go after conservatives, let the justice department agencies spy on the Trump campaign and have a insurance policy in place to remove him if he was elected is unbelievable to me. Heck they even used foreign spies from multiple countries (Australia, Italy and England) to do what ours could not do by law to entrap those associated with the Trump campaign.

Keep hating Trump...I will love to rub it in if he gets re-elected. If he doesn't get re-elected I will not post on jazzfanz for a year due to my private bet with revolutionary 9 (a Mod), who told me he thought Hillary would be a better president than Trump. Did you know they wrote Hillary's exronaration months before they interviewed her, did not tape her interview and gave her aids amnesty? They even let her aids sit in on Hillary's interview.

Tell me truly how do you hate Trump so much while ignoring the bad the democrats and main stream media do?
Because he is an incredibly immoral and revolting human being who is doing awful things to the planet and the country, from rolling back environmental regulations to putting people on the Supreme Court who could dismantle everything the court has done since Brown vs Education.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
I’ll let others speak for themselves.
Posters speaking for themselves too sparingly is a social sin that, as a social justice warrior of my own kind, I'm entitled to correct or supplement as needed.

Just be glad I'm not in Congress, or on the Supreme Court, making everyone do what is right. ...... uhmmm.....

no, I'm wrong about that. The World needs me, I should serve.

srs, though.... I'm pretty sure Spazz's traditional reticence for playing the fool will not be even momentarily overturned to explain his one cryptic post in months.

Perhaps I should re-think my own proclivities.
 
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