Coronavirus

[sirkickyass]

I believe that the vast majority of what people on the left call Trump's lies are not lies at all. To me they are purposeful misinterpretations of his words reconfigured as lies. An example is Trump speculating about the possibility of cleaning blood. Anti-Trumpers immediately conflated that statement with telling Americans to inject or drink bleach. He never said that. Meanwhile they ignore what appear to be obvious lies by guys like Chris Cuomo, Peter Strozck, James Comey, James Clapper, AOC, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi. In the opinion of some people (you are apparently included in this group), if you hate Trump you are allowed to say whatever you want.

I mean he literally said "I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning?"

If your entire point is that "disinfectant" could mean something besides bleach, I think you're doing a lot of work to say that people misrepresented what he said. Disinfectants, by definition are chemical agents designed to destroy microorganisms on inert surfaces. If you think there's a totally harmless disinfectant to inject and that makes shorthanding it as "bleach" fundamentally misleading I'm all ears.

But also, you are dodging the question. Do you think Trump lies more than the average person? This is a pretty simple yes or no.

 

[stitches]

The word a few days ago was that testing was slightly down.

The Saturday number represented a nearly 15% (I think it was 14.6%) positive rate on tests. The rate was previously dropping and was near 4% positive rate. So these numbers represent a significantly higher positive rate per test.

Those %s are not good. 10% seems to be about the cut off where they consider you are testing enough people to have a good picture of how the virus is spreading. 15 is high. It's possible there is significant uncontrolled spread that's going undetected. Sample is still small though... lets see how it goes over the next several days. Might be just some weird blip or some concentrated epicenter with lots of cases being confirmed at the same spot.

 

[silesian]

Show me a single statement where Trump advised people to inject bleach.

Who said that he said that?

I can show you hundreds where people have claimed that he said that.

I can show you tens of thousands of people who believe we never landed on the moon, that aliens live in their closet, that they speak to their dead spouse, that the earth is flat, that two penguins traveled from Antarctica to hop aboard Noah's ark before water magically appeared to put all land underwater.

Many people are dumb. If that is your only point, then we agree

 

[silesian]

Show me a single statement where Trump advised people to inject bleach. I can show you hundreds where people have claimed that he said that.

Your claim was that this was being stated by everyone in the MS media. You provided an entire transcript which disproved your claim and proved that you were hearing things that no one was saying.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I mean he literally said "I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning?"

If your entire point is that "disinfectant" could mean something besides bleach, I think you're doing a lot of work to say that people misrepresented what he said. Disinfectants, by definition are chemical agents designed to destroy microorganisms on inert surfaces. If you think there's a totally harmless disinfectant to inject and that makes shorthanding it as "bleach" fundamentally misleading I'm all ears.

But also, you are dodging the question. Do you think Trump lies more than the average person? This is a pretty simple yes or no.

Trump's quote sounded to me like speculation. He seemed to be wondering if there was a way to disinfect people. He didn't tell people to disinfect themselves. Those are completely different things. I agree that he has no business speculating in a press conference about such things, but he did not tell anyone to use bleach on themselves.

You are dodging my question regarding whether you care about lies told by liberals. I asked you long before you asked me and you have dodged it repeatedly. I assume you will keep dodging it. Regarding Trump, I think he is a narcissist, and I think you have to be very careful about anything that any narcissist says to you. They do not care about the truth in the way that the majority of people do. I also think Hillary, Obama and nearly every other person who I have seen run the gauntlet to the presidency since the advent of social media and 24 hour news-cycle has been. I think it is very unlikely that we will see any non-narcissist become president ever again. The reason is that the narcissist will tear them to shreds (just like Obama did with Romney). I don't think Carter was a narcissist. I don't think Reagan was either. They were from a different era, though.

Hillary is a far more careful liar than Trump, but she is at least as dangerous IMO. So my answer is that I do think Trump is less honest than the average person, but not less honest than the average presidential politician.

 

[One Brow]

Trump's quote sounded to me like speculation. He seemed to be wondering if there was a way to disinfect people. He didn't tell people to disinfect themselves. Those are completely different things. I agree that he has no business speculating in a press conference about such things, but he did not tell anyone to use bleach on themselves.

Agreed.

I think it is very unlikely that we will see any non-narcissist become president ever again. The reason is that the narcissist will tear them to shreds (just like Obama did with Romney). I don't think Carter was a narcissist. I don't think Reagan was either. They were from a different era, though.

First, in order to even run for President, you have to have a pretty large amount of self-esteem, so this is all relative. I disagree on Reagan (definitely a narcissist) and Obama (didn't seem like one to me). However, I agree Romney, and as another recent Republican example, G. W. Bush, were not narcissistic.

Hillary is a far more careful liar than Trump, but she is at least as dangerous IMO. So my answer is that I do think Trump is less honest than the average person, but not less honest than the average presidential politician.

During the 2016 campaign, Clinton was more truthful by any reasonable measure. Trump is not only much less honest the average politician, but lies about completely stupid stuff to keep his ego inflated.

 

[sirkickyass]

Fine. I think you are in the habit of applying a completely different level of scrutiny to statements made by made by conservatives vs. statements made by liberals.

I don't believe you ever asked me anything. You just stated this as a conclusion. I had no idea you were waiting for a response.

Here's what I think: I believe that liberals are a lot more interested in statements made from expertise than conservatives are, and that as a result of that the arguments they make tend to be significantly more accurate. The GOP uses a form of tribal epistemology - what is good for the party is what I believe is true.

That opens them up to much more scrutiny by sheer volume alone. Trump makes dozens of wild misstatements a week. There's no modern parallel. If you believe it's truly a both sides played hard thing, that's willful blindness.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Who said that he said that?



I can show you tens of thousands of people who believe we never landed on the moon, that aliens live in their closet, that they speak to their dead spouse, that the earth is flat, that two penguins traveled from Antarctica to hop aboard Noah's ark before water magically appeared to put all land underwater.

Many people are dumb. If that is your only point, then we agree

This is ridiculous. I watched an interview on CNN where the host asked an expert on poisons, "Would you recommend that Americans ingest Clorox?" You can't figure out why they were asking that question? It was because they were implying that the president said that people should do it. They did this sort of thing over and over and over again. I guess it's possible that you could watch every one of these interviews and say, "I found a little wiggle room in the statements so it is not entirely accurate that they were claiming the president instructed people to ingest bleach," but if you applied anything approaching that level of positive scrutiny to Trump's statements you would have to admit that the entire episode should have been a non-story. Instead it dominated the news cycle because the same people who are willing to give wiggle room to libs aren't willing to allow the slightest bit of wiggle to conservatives.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I don't believe you ever asked me anything. You just stated this as a conclusion. I had no idea you were waiting for a response.

Here's what I think: I believe that liberals are a lot more interested in statements made from expertise than conservatives are, and that as a result of that the arguments they make tend to be significantly more accurate. The GOP uses a form of tribal epistemology - what is good for the party is what I believe is true.

That opens them up to much more scrutiny by sheer volume alone. Trump makes dozens of wild misstatements a week. There's no modern parallel. If you believe it's truly a both sides played hard thing, that's willful blindness.

I asked you why you applied so much scrutiny to conservatives and very little to liberals and you ignored it until now. I completely disagree with your justification for doing it but I've got a lot of better things to do than continue with this conversation and it's clear it will make no difference to you no matter what I say anyway. Enjoy your ideology. Cheers.

 

[silesian]

This is ridiculous. I watched an interview on CNN where the host asked an expert on poisons, "Would you recommend that Americans ingest Clorox?" You can't figure out why they were asking that question? It was because they were implying that the president said that people should do it. They did this sort of thing over and over and over again. I guess it's possible that you could watch every one of these interviews and say, "I found a little wiggle room in the statements so it is not entirely accurate that they were claiming the president instructed people to ingest bleach," but if you applied anything approaching that level of positive scrutiny to Trump's statements you would have to admit that the entire episode should have been a non-story. Instead it dominated the news cycle because the same people who are willing to give wiggle room to libs aren't willing to allow the slightest bit of wiggle to conservatives.

It dominated the news story because of the complete idiocy.

Dude, bless your heart is it really worth your energy defending this buffoon?

 

[silesian]

Enjoy your ideology. Cheers.

My irony sensor just pegged

 

[Gameface]

My irony sensor just pegged

it pegged so hard I feel like I got pegged