Court: California gay marriage ban is unconstitutional

[Gameface]

It keeps marriage between a man and a woman like it has always been.

The benefits of that are...?

 

[GVC]

So, what do I learn from my encounters with so many gay people?
1. They are miserable. All of them.
2. They have all seriously considered suicide.
3. They speak openly at times how they want the church to change and accept gays and let them marry in the temple.
4. They speak out harshly against the leaders of the church. They are careful to keep this to a rare occurrence, knowing that I won't stand for it, but in moments of weakness, they do
5. They want the whole country to be forced to accept gays. They want laws enacted to forced this. Oh, they will go on about how all they want is acceptance, but it always comes back to LAWS.
6. They are all for the gay lifestyle to be taught in schools.
7. Why do they want gay marriage? None of them actually want to get married. They want a free lifestyle, but they all stated to me that if gay marriage is enforced by law, then people will eventually accept their lifestyle, and #3 will be closer to being a reality.
One of them even stated very clearly that he hoped all mormon temples would eventually be closed down.

I fail to see how this list addresses your initial assertion that it's a fact homosexuality destroys nations OR the concerns/questions raised by AtheistPreacher, myself, and others.

How does homosexuality destroy nations? How will legalizing same-sex marriages destroy America?

I watched the movie Agenda this morning. It was tall on fear mongering and short on facts/data/rational arguments. I am a little alarmed that everyone who doesn't love George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan is a Communist. I've been praying all day to try to combat this terrible plague on the world.

 

[kwb]

GVC, he's not going to answer this. I've read this whole thread and you have brought this up over 5 times now and he just keeps ignoring it. His fight is, "It destroys nations because I said so."

 

[Stoked]

Yeah people should stop screwing over kids through bad choices in marriage partners and divorce, but the "civil liberties" angle doesn't fly with me.

Call it what ever you want to. They should not be denied things that society gives a heterosexual person.

 

[AtheistPreacher]

So, what do I learn from my encounters with so many gay people?
1. They are miserable. All of them.
2. They have all seriously considered suicide.
3. They speak openly at times how they want the church to change and accept gays and let them marry in the temple.
4. They speak out harshly against the leaders of the church. They are careful to keep this to a rare occurrence, knowing that I won't stand for it, but in moments of weakness, they do
5. They want the whole country to be forced to accept gays. They want laws enacted to forced this. Oh, they will go on about how all they want is acceptance, but it always comes back to LAWS.
6. They are all for the gay lifestyle to be taught in schools.
7. Why do they want gay marriage? None of them actually want to get married. They want a free lifestyle, but they all stated to me that if gay marriage is enforced by law, then people will eventually accept their lifestyle, and #3 will be closer to being a reality.
One of them even stated very clearly that he hoped all mormon temples would eventually be closed down.

And by my own experience living in California, and knowing many many gay people:

1: Wrong. Most of the gay people I know are quite happy.
2: Wrong. See above.
3: Nothing wrong with asking. Martin Luther tried to change his church. Eventually he split off entirely, but he began with a legitimate grievance and a legitimate reason for change. Same thing here. If your church continues not to change, then eventually they will get tired of asking and leave (either that, or your church will change and you will leave). Either way, problem solved.
4: Again, nothing wrong with speaking what you believe. See above.
5: What is wrong with people wanting to be able to live their lives unharassed? You talk as though non-discrimination will have a major effect on your life. It won't. It's all too easy to ignore and not associate with people you don't like. I do it all the time!
6: Now, this always confuses me. What is the "gay lifestyle"? As far as I can tell, it isn't any different than the "straight lifestyle." But perhaps you could describe to me what you feel the "gay lifestyle" consists of.
7: Um, there are plenty of gays who want to be in monogamous relationships. In fact, a lot of the gays I know are in monogamous, committed relationships. When the "straight" divorce rate is over 50%, I find this an odd criticism. Matthew 7:5, dude.

But again, I keep hearing you railing against the "gay lifestyle." I would love to know what you think this is. As far as I have seen, there is no fundamental difference between how gays and straights live.

 

[AtheistPreacher]

What's wrong dude. Can't actually answer anything that I said?

My point just keeps being proven.

Now that's funny. You accusing people of not answering your "arguments" (I just have), and yet you still refuse to answer mine.

My point just keeps being proven.

 

[Stoked]

And by my own experience living in California, and knowing many many gay people:

1: Wrong
2: Wrong
3: Nothing wrong with asking.
4: Again, nothing wrong with speaking what you believe.
5: What is wrong with people wanting to be able to live their lives unharassed?
6: Now, this always confuses me. What is the "gay lifestyle"? As far as I can tell, it isn't any different than the "straight lifestyle." But perhaps you could describe to me what you feel the "gay lifestyle" consists of.7: Um, there are plenty of gays who want to be in monogamous relationships. In fact, a lot of the gays I know are in monogamous, committed relationships. When the "straight" divorce rate is over 50%, I find this an odd criticism.

But again, I keep hearing you railing against the "gay lifestyle." I would love to know what you think this is. As far as I have seen, there is no fundamental difference between how gays and straights live.

What is perceived is that they are a wild, partying, anything goes group. I am not saying that is what they are but what is perceived. Personally the ones I know fit this category but who cares? They are not hurting me. They have steady jobs and pay their way so no harm no foul. I am sure there are many homosexual people that are not party animals and lead quiet family oriented lives. I just dont know them. Shows you what circles I walk in.

 

[AtheistPreacher]

What is perceived is that they are a wild, partying, anything goes group. I am not saying that is what they are but what is perceived. Personally the ones I know fit this category but who cares? They are not hurting me. They have steady jobs and pay their way so no harm no foul. I am sure there are many homosexual people that are not party animals and lead quiet family oriented lives. I just dont know them. Shows you what circles I walk in.

I know one gay guy who's a 25-year-old virgin. Of course, people who assume gay people are having sex all the time are shocked by this. But he's old-fashioned, and wants to wait for a life-partner.

He told me he gets some odd questions because of this, as well. Apparently one his close friends, who up until then he had assumed understood what being gay meant, asked him how he could be sure he was gay if he hadn't had sex with anybody yet. Umm, gee, I don't know, how do straight people know they're straight before they have sex? Just goes to show that people don't actually think sometimes.

 

[Bronco70]

craig2112

In an attempt to genuinely understand your POV, I have a question. I need to make some logical extensions here, so bear with me.

Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

If all gays are miserable, it would seem to me that it couldn't be a choice. Why choose to be miserable? But if it isn't a choice, what is it? And can being gay be considered evil if it's not a choice? To me this is a natural contradiction.

 

[TroutBum]

Hypocrite.

Um, details? I assume you're taking it out of context and referring to the fact that I'm a Mo and I am involved in city politics, but there's this itching feeling that that isn't why you posted that. So, details please.

 

[Stoked]

I know one gay guy who's a 25-year-old virgin. Of course, people who assume gay people are having sex all the time are shocked by this. But he's old-fashioned, and wants to wait for a life-partner.

He told me he gets some odd questions because of this, as well. Apparently one his close friends, who up until then he had assumed understood what being gay meant, asked him how he could be sure he was gay if he hadn't had sex with anybody yet. Umm, gee, I don't know, how do straight people know they're straight before they have sex? Just goes to show that people don't actually think sometimes.

Oh I agree that the perception is not the reality of what the "gay life style" is. That is why I specifically mentioned the perception. It is not so much that they do not think as they do not understand or are misinformed.

 

[Stoked]

craig2112

In an attempt to genuinely understand your POV, I have a question. I need to make some logical extensions here, so bear with me.

Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?
If all gays are miserable, it would seem to me that it couldn't be a choice. Why choose to be miserable? But if it isn't a choice, what is it? And can being gay be considered evil if it's not a choice? To me this is a natural contradiction.

Honsetly? I think it can be both. The vast amjority are just who they are. But I think there is a small percentage that choose that lifestly and orientation. And you know what? Good for them if it makes them happy.