Dame Time

[Jaanipoeg]

I just feel we are too soon in our rebuild to pay full price for a 33yo guy. I'd consider 3 picks and Sexton, maybe Ochai depending on our draft this year. Maybe I'd go four if one is the 2023 Philly pick, 2023 Wolves around 16, Lakers, and 2025 Cavs and we get to keep young talent like Ochai. If we are bringing in Lillard, we won't be prioritizing developing 3 rookies so ship some out in the deal and keep further out assets in the chest for later.

 

[sip]

I just don't think this is the time to go all in on a 33yr old. All of a sudden player development takes a backseat on a team that would hopefully still have a bunch of young guys and I don't think it gets us to the top of the west. Is Lillard and Lauri a better duo than Booker and Durant. I don't think so. Is Lillard and Lauri a better duo than Morant and Jaren Jackson? I don't think so. Are they a better duo than Jokic and Murray? Probably not because Jokic is so damn good. Then you have a bunch of other pretty insane duos that could carry teams if they stay somewhat healthy.

Kawhi and PG
Fox and Sabonis
Lebron and AD
Doncic and Irving
Ingram and Zion
Edwards and KAT
Shai and Giddey

If we are going to try to make a big 2 then I want someone closer to Lauri's age so we have a much longer window. We have spoken about Quickley a little bit on this board and I think he does have legit star guard upside. The knicks probably match anything but I think I would throw a max contract offer at him. The knicks also have to re-sign Hart who will probably cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 15mil to 18mil a year if I had to guess. Another thing for the knicks is that when Brunson is healthy Quickley is no longer capable of putting up even close to the same production so do you want to pay 30mil for a guy that averages maybe 18pts a game or maybe Sexton interests them in a sign and trade where they keep that explosive scoring but not quite the same all around player but only pay 17mil for it. It's a bummer that we didn't get a chance to see Sexton for more than a few games after the Conley trade because I'm pretty confident he could have built some serious value compared to his contract.

 

[infection]

What's a realistic package that lands us Dame?

Probably Greg Oden’s.

 

[infection]

I will forever wonder if getting CP3 instead of Conley would’ve won us a championship with that group

It’s an interesting question if he could have provided the annoying leadership and accountability that Quin couldn’t bring, and let Quin just do the Xs and Os.

 

[infection]

Time to start this thread back up. Fairly certain Lillard will be available this summer.

Let’s start with this… what is the most you’d be willing to part with to trade for him?

Any picks given have to start with low value ones, or ones that we already know their ceiling. Having something like the Philly pick be used as first round currency to count in the deal would be a good start and almost house money.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Ehh, I'm good.

Jazz should still be in asset-accumulation mode, but if they're going to start dumping them overboard it has to be for a guy in his 20's.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I'd rather them wait for the better pool of FA in 24, and/or make a run at some good fillers like Seth Curry, Oladipo, Naz Reid or even Harrison Barnes. Let the new rookies get burn this year, and make a splash in 24.

Dame is awesome, but his salary is simply too high to keep flexibility. He doesn't want to rebuild, but his salary has put the team in an inflexible position to upgrade.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I continue to think that's not the direction we should go, but just to play devil's advocate a little bit, he seems to be the best player that could be available and I think we might be one of the few teams who could still be alright if it doesn't work out as long as we are only giving up minor assets to do it.

If it did work out though, and he brought Utah a championship, even if we were only good for that one year, it would be worth paying him $60+ million a year.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I continue to think that's not the direction we should go, but just to play devil's advocate a little bit, he seems to be the best player that could be available and I think we might be one of the few teams who could still be alright if it doesn't work out as long as we are only giving up minor assets to do it.

If it did work out though, and he brought Utah a championship, even if we were only good for that one year, it would be worth paying him $60+ million a year.

Overall I'd hold off and go for the 2nd year tank.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Overall I'd hold off and go for the 2nd year tank.

I hope something good comes up that makes more sense than Dame, but if it doesn't, I can be patient.

 

[HermanG]

Ehh, I'm good.

Jazz should still be in asset-accumulation mode, but if they're going to start dumping them overboard it has to be for a guy in his 20's.

Interesting take. What makes you say we should still collect assets and how do you suppose we do it?

 

[NUMBERICA]

Interesting take. What makes you say we should still collect assets and how do you suppose we do it?

Well for one, sign a good free agent or two.

Parlay JC, KO, and/or THT (depending on how things play out this off-season). Rent cap space if they can’t turn all of it into legit pieces. The Jazz are still waaay short on 2nds and they can get those through these avenues. They’re really good for lubing deals.

I think next year is the last train out of town for picking up assets while still building in earnest.

I’m not touching the 1sts to rent a player in their mid-30’s. I’m just not.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Parlay JC, KO, and/or THT (depending on how things play out this off-season). Rent cap space if they can’t turn all of it into legit pieces.

The Jazz are still waaay short on 2nds and they can get those using the above. They’re really good for lubing deals.

Ainge doesn’t give a **** about 2nds.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Ainge doesn’t give a **** about 2nds.

You don’t have to draft players with them.

 

[infection]

You don’t have to draft players with them.

Yeah, he apparently doesn’t care. Like some people too good to be seen shopping at Walmart, Ainge doesn’t want to be seen making deals with seconds.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Yeah, he apparently doesn’t care. Like some people too good to be seen shopping at Walmart, Ainge doesn’t want to be seen making deals with seconds.

Well optics are another thing. Like in a situation where there is a distressed asset and the other team doesn't want to be seen as sending assets or even just not receiving them, 2nds are great for sending SOMETHING. In the case of the Jazz, the Jazz wouldn't really be losing anything, but the receiving team at least gets to save face on a deal.

We see good players exchanged for seconds all the time. You want to have those in the cupboard for when you're winning and looking for those pieces that make you even marginally better than the competition. Better to use 2nds than 1sts, and if we don't have any 2nds then you're left with much less granular and much more valuable liquid assets that you're sending out.

TLDR; never use 1sts if 2nds will do. The Jazz have almost 0 of them right now. I would be thrilled to have gotten five 2nds for Clarkson at this point.

 

[infection]

Well optics are another thing. Like in a situation where there is a distressed asset and the other team doesn't want to be seen as sending assets or even just not receiving them, 2nds are great for sending SOMETHING. In the case of the Jazz, the Jazz wouldn't really be losing anything, but the receiving team at least gets to save face on a deal.

We see good players exchanged for seconds all the time. You want to have those in the cupboard for when you're winning and looking for those pieces that make you even marginally better than the competition. Better to use 2nds than 1sts, and if we don't have any 2nds then you're left with much less granular and much more valuable liquid assets that you're sending out.

TLDR; never use 1sts if 2nds will do. The Jazz have almost 0 of them right now.

I totally get it. I save lots of money at Walmart and nobody knows any different. It puts me at an advantage against those who don’t. But I guess the people who didn’t shop get some kind of satisfaction of having not gotten something from Walmart, and they value that much higher than the practicality and improved daily function.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Let's say that just for the sake of making a point that four 2nds = a top-20 protected 1st. From there, let's translate that to currency where a 2nd round pick is a quarter and the aforementioned 1st-rounders is a dollar. One player is on the market and can be had for 25 cents, another can be had for 40 cents. With three seconds you can get those players, but if you are short seconds, you are basically faced with dipping into assets that would result in overpaying, coming up with something convoluted that nobody is interested in dealing with, or just generally not getting the deal done.

Then there's another scenario where 2nds can push a bigger deal over the top. The Jazz actually did exactly this in the Conley deal.

No one can say that 2nds aren't worth anything and then watch them get exchanged in consequential deals all the ****ing time.

 

[infection]

Let's say that just for the sake of making a point that four 2nds = a top-20 protected 1st. From there, let's translate that to currency where a 2nd round pick is a quarter and the aforementioned 1st-rounders is a dollar. One player is on the market and can be had for 25 cents, another can be had for 40 cents. With three seconds you can get those players, but if you are short seconds, you are basically faced with dipping into assets that would result in overpaying, coming up with something convoluted that nobody is interested in dealing with, or just generally not getting the deal done.

Then there's another scenario where 2nds can push a bigger deal over the top. The Jazz actually did exactly this in the Conley deal.

No one can say that 2nds aren't worth anything and then watch them get exchanged in consequential deals all the ****ing time.

For being “an opportunist,” he lacks a lot of frugality and leaves a lot on the table in some deals. Swallow your pride and box that **** up for leftovers.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Let's say that just for the sake of making a point that four 2nds = a top-20 protected 1st. From there, let's translate that to currency where a 2nd round pick is a quarter and the aforementioned 1st-rounders is a dollar. One player is on the market and can be had for 25 cents, another can be had for 40 cents. With three seconds you can get those players, but if you are short seconds, you are basically faced with dipping into assets that would result in overpaying, coming up with something convoluted that nobody is interested in dealing with, or just generally not getting the deal done.

Then there's another scenario where 2nds can push a bigger deal over the top. The Jazz actually did exactly this in the Conley deal.

No one can say that 2nds aren't worth anything and then watch them get exchanged in consequential deals all the ****ing time.

There are several smart people that have done this analysis and Andy Larsen compiled them when we made the Lakers trade in order to discuss value. I'll try and find it and link it later.

Whatever value you might think a second is worth, or I think a second is worth, or experts say a second is worth, Danny Ainge appears to think it is worth way way less.